September 1997 - sg16-avd - lists.packetizer.com

Re: H.245 v1 and v2 will not interoperate
by Mike Nilsson 30 Sep '97

30 Sep '97

Bancroft, Thanks for looking into these issues. As far as I am aware, all of the name changes between version 1 and version 2 were intentional, and were done to correct the syntax, such as in the case of g-dsvd being changed to g729AnnexA. This will give implementors some cause for complaint in the short term, but is probably best in the long term. It was the intention to make version 2 interoperable with version 1. Looking at your comments, it seems like you are not using the correct syntax for version 1. I have attached these two sets of syntax, and would appreciate it if you could repeat your tests and publicise the results to the group. I am currently finalising version 3, and would appreciate any help you could give with that before I send it to the ITU, in particular, checking the validity of the syntax. Best regards Mike Nilsson Version 1 syntax is file H245ASN5.TXT Version 2 syntax is file H245ASN6.TXT >Hi, > >In trying to use an option of the OSS ASN.1 Compiler that makes it >possible to move from V1 to V2 of a protocol without any name changes >occurring in the generated .h file, the ASN.1 compiler reported a bunch >of >unexpected changes in H.245 V2 relative to H.245 V1. Upon >investigation I >found that its complaints were due to a) changes in the names of >identifiers >in H.245 V2 compared to those in V1, and much more seriously, b) >changes in >the H.245 V2 messages compared to V1 that results in V2 not being a >valid >extension of V1 - meaning that any implementation that conforms to >H.245 V2 >is guaranteed to be non-interoperable with implementations that >conform to H.245 V1. > >I don't follow H.245 closely, so I don't know if it was intentional >that >these two versions are incompatible with each other. If this was the >intent then please ignore this email. > >Some of the changes in H.245 V2 that result in name changes in the >compiler-generated .h file (unless a directive is used to tell the >compiler to use the V1 name) are: > >- All occurrences of the identifier q723 have been changed to q7231 > >- In T84Profile the identifier jbig200x200Progr has been changed to >jbig200x200Prog ("r" at the end has been removed). > >- In AudioMode the identifier g-dsvd has been changed to g729AnnexA > >- In H263VidoeCapability the identifier bppmaxKb has been changed to >bppMaxKb ("m" changed to "M"). > >- In DataProtocolCapability the identifier the identifier >hdlcFrameTunnellingwSAR has been changed to hdlcFrameTunnelingwSAR >("ll" >changed to "l"). > >- In RequestMultiplexEntry the identifier >multiplexTableEntryNumberentryNumbers has been changed to entryNumbers. > >- In RequestMultiplexEntryAck the identifier >multiplexTableEntryNumberentryNumbers has been changed to entryNumbers. > >- In RequestMultiplexEntryRelease the identifier >multiplexTableEntryNumberentryNumbers has been changed to entryNumbers. > >The above is probably only a partial list of the changes that are >merely >minor annoyances for anyone who uses an ASN.1 compiler. Much more >significant are the following which render H.245 V2 inoperable with >H.245 >V1 implementations: > >- In OpenLogicalChannelAck the CHOICE alternative v75Parameters was >removed in H.245 V2. This affects the bits on the wire and guarantees >that a V1 and V2 applications cannot interoperate if they attempt to >exchange an OpenLogicalChannelAck message unless they happen to omit >the >reverseLogicalChannelParameters or multiplexParameters fields. If >multiplexParameters is present they will fail to interoperate. > >- The type of AudioCapability.g729AnnexA changed from being a SEQUENCE >to >being an INTEGER. This changes the bits on the wire because a field >that >was previously mandatory is now no longer being encoded. > >- In H.245 V2 the V76HDLCParameters has the field crcLength as >mandatory, while in H.245 V1 it is OPTIONAL. This affects the >bits on the wire so V1 and V2 cannot exchange the V76HDLCParameters >type. > >- In IndicationMessage the second CHOICE alternative has changed from >FunctionNotSupported in V1 to FunctionNotUnderstood in V2. This >affects >the bits on the wire so that V1 and V2 cannot exchange the second >CHOICE >alternative of this message, for FunctionNotSupported and >FunctionNotUnderstood are syntactically different types. > >- In H.245 V1 NonStandardParameter was extensible, while in V2 it is >not. >This affects the bits on the wire and makes it impossible for >NonStandardParameter to be exchanged between V1 and V2 implementations. > >- In H.245 V1 NonStandardIdentifier was extensible, while in V2 it is >not. >This affects the bits on the wire and makes it impossible for >NonStandardParameter to be exchanged between V1 and V2 implementations. > >- In H.245 V1 the DataProtocolCapability components >segmentationAndReassembly and hdlcFrameTunnellingwSAR were in the >extension root, but in H.245 V2 they have been made extension >additions. >This affects the bits on the wire for all possible encodings of >DataProtocolCapability so it cannot be exchanged between V1 and V2 >implementations. > >- V76LogicalChannelParameters has been changed from a CHOICE to a >SEQUENCE. This affects the bits on the wire so >V76LogicalChannelParameters cannot be exchanged between V1 and V2 >implementations. > >- In UserInputIndication the component alphanumeric has changed types >from >IA5String to GeneralString. This is undoubtedly a mistake, IMHO. >Aside >from the fact that it affects the bits on the wire due to the default >permitted alphabet being altered, GeneralString is a far more difficult >type to work with because the characters in it are of varying width. >That >is, one character can occupy 1 byte, and the next 3 bytes, then next 4 >bytes, the next 2 bytes, and so on. It is due to the difficulty in >writing programs to process such character string types why BMPString >was >introduced into ASN.1. What was the rationale for going from IA5String >to GeneralString? > >I am likely to have missed other changes that make V1 and V2 >incompatible, >for I was not trying to be thorough once I realized that there were >more >than just one or two such errors. > >It occurs to me that maybe the idea is that protocolIdentifier is to >be used to determine the set of messages that can be exchanged, so the >problems with bits on the wire mappings reported above are not >important. However, if this is the case and bits on the wire >compatibility is not important then why bother adding types after the >extension marks ("..."), given that such types require a few more bits >to >encode than if they appeared before the extension mark? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-- >Bancroft Scott Toll Free >:1-888-OSS-ASN1 >Open Systems Solutions, Inc. >International:1-609-987-9073 >baos(a)oss.com Tech Support >:1-732-249-5107 >http://www.oss.com Fax >:1-732-249-4636 > begin 600 SYNTAX.ZIP M4$L#!!0``@`(`"F*/2,N^+K;@QH``""9```6````4T<Q-2](,C0U+T@R-#5! 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2 1

Re: H.245 v1 and v2 will not interoperate
by Paul Long 30 Sep '97

30 Sep '97

Mike Nilsson wrote: > Version 1 syntax is file H245ASN5.TXT > Version 2 syntax is file H245ASN6.TXT I thought that the Decided version 1 is 5 and the Decided version 2 is 9, not 6. What gives? BTW, there has been enough confusion (mostly on my part, granted) about what's Determined and what's Decided that perhaps we should have some short document available online somewhere that describes the status of each iteration. -- Paul Long___________________________http://www.cmpu.net/public/plong Smith Micro Software, Inc.__________http://www.smithmicro.com/

1 0

Discard unexpected RTP packets?
by Paul Long 29 Sep '97

29 Sep '97

At the H.323 interop in Jerusalem, I learned that some implementations discard RTP packets whose payload type is incorrect, either implied by the dataType or specified in the dynamicRTPPayloadType field. However, some implementations completely ignore the payload type and accept all packets in the stream. We, Smith Micro, used to be strict about this, then we stopped checking when we found that some vendors were using the wrong payload type. Now I'm thinking that we should go back to being strict about it. I exchanged email with Henning Schulzrinne, and he said that endpoints must discard packets with unexpected payload types in order to ensure backward-compatibility with future encodings. (I CC'ed him in case I have misrepresented his thoughts on this subject in some way.) Let's take a concrete example. An incoming channel is established for G.723.1 audio, and the endpoint starts receiving RTP packets with PT=4--the expected payload type for G.723.1. Everything's fine. Then the endpoint receives an RTP packet with an unexpected payload type, PT=80. It doesn't matter here, but let's say that this is an RTP DTMF packet. What happens next? Apparently, H.323 and H.225.0 are silent about whether the packet is discarded or passed (with unintended results) to the G.723.1 codec, so the behavior is undefined. I agree with Henning that endpoints should be required to discard packets with unexpected payload types, but most of all, I believe that we need to come to a concensus about what to do in this situation and then document it. Any comments? -- Paul Long___________________________http://www.cmpu.net/public/plong Smith Micro Software, Inc.__________http://www.smithmicro.com/

3 2

H.245 v1 and v2 will not interoperate
by Bancroft Scott 28 Sep '97

28 Sep '97

Hi, In trying to use an option of the OSS ASN.1 Compiler that makes it possible to move from V1 to V2 of a protocol without any name changes occurring in the generated .h file, the ASN.1 compiler reported a bunch of unexpected changes in H.245 V2 relative to H.245 V1. Upon investigation I found that its complaints were due to a) changes in the names of identifiers in H.245 V2 compared to those in V1, and much more seriously, b) changes in the H.245 V2 messages compared to V1 that results in V2 not being a valid extension of V1 - meaning that any implementation that conforms to H.245 V2 is guaranteed to be non-interoperable with implementations that conform to H.245 V1. I don't follow H.245 closely, so I don't know if it was intentional that these two versions are incompatible with each other. If this was the intent then please ignore this email. Some of the changes in H.245 V2 that result in name changes in the compiler-generated .h file (unless a directive is used to tell the compiler to use the V1 name) are: - All occurrences of the identifier q723 have been changed to q7231 - In T84Profile the identifier jbig200x200Progr has been changed to jbig200x200Prog ("r" at the end has been removed). - In AudioMode the identifier g-dsvd has been changed to g729AnnexA - In H263VidoeCapability the identifier bppmaxKb has been changed to bppMaxKb ("m" changed to "M"). - In DataProtocolCapability the identifier the identifier hdlcFrameTunnellingwSAR has been changed to hdlcFrameTunnelingwSAR ("ll" changed to "l"). - In RequestMultiplexEntry the identifier multiplexTableEntryNumberentryNumbers has been changed to entryNumbers. - In RequestMultiplexEntryAck the identifier multiplexTableEntryNumberentryNumbers has been changed to entryNumbers. - In RequestMultiplexEntryRelease the identifier multiplexTableEntryNumberentryNumbers has been changed to entryNumbers. The above is probably only a partial list of the changes that are merely minor annoyances for anyone who uses an ASN.1 compiler. Much more significant are the following which render H.245 V2 inoperable with H.245 V1 implementations: - In OpenLogicalChannelAck the CHOICE alternative v75Parameters was removed in H.245 V2. This affects the bits on the wire and guarantees that a V1 and V2 applications cannot interoperate if they attempt to exchange an OpenLogicalChannelAck message unless they happen to omit the reverseLogicalChannelParameters or multiplexParameters fields. If multiplexParameters is present they will fail to interoperate. - The type of AudioCapability.g729AnnexA changed from being a SEQUENCE to being an INTEGER. This changes the bits on the wire because a field that was previously mandatory is now no longer being encoded. - In H.245 V2 the V76HDLCParameters has the field crcLength as mandatory, while in H.245 V1 it is OPTIONAL. This affects the bits on the wire so V1 and V2 cannot exchange the V76HDLCParameters type. - In IndicationMessage the second CHOICE alternative has changed from FunctionNotSupported in V1 to FunctionNotUnderstood in V2. This affects the bits on the wire so that V1 and V2 cannot exchange the second CHOICE alternative of this message, for FunctionNotSupported and FunctionNotUnderstood are syntactically different types. - In H.245 V1 NonStandardParameter was extensible, while in V2 it is not. This affects the bits on the wire and makes it impossible for NonStandardParameter to be exchanged between V1 and V2 implementations. - In H.245 V1 NonStandardIdentifier was extensible, while in V2 it is not. This affects the bits on the wire and makes it impossible for NonStandardParameter to be exchanged between V1 and V2 implementations. - In H.245 V1 the DataProtocolCapability components segmentationAndReassembly and hdlcFrameTunnellingwSAR were in the extension root, but in H.245 V2 they have been made extension additions. This affects the bits on the wire for all possible encodings of DataProtocolCapability so it cannot be exchanged between V1 and V2 implementations. - V76LogicalChannelParameters has been changed from a CHOICE to a SEQUENCE. This affects the bits on the wire so V76LogicalChannelParameters cannot be exchanged between V1 and V2 implementations. - In UserInputIndication the component alphanumeric has changed types from IA5String to GeneralString. This is undoubtedly a mistake, IMHO. Aside from the fact that it affects the bits on the wire due to the default permitted alphabet being altered, GeneralString is a far more difficult type to work with because the characters in it are of varying width. That is, one character can occupy 1 byte, and the next 3 bytes, then next 4 bytes, the next 2 bytes, and so on. It is due to the difficulty in writing programs to process such character string types why BMPString was introduced into ASN.1. What was the rationale for going from IA5String to GeneralString? I am likely to have missed other changes that make V1 and V2 incompatible, for I was not trying to be thorough once I realized that there were more than just one or two such errors. It occurs to me that maybe the idea is that protocolIdentifier is to be used to determine the set of messages that can be exchanged, so the problems with bits on the wire mappings reported above are not important. However, if this is the case and bits on the wire compatibility is not important then why bother adding types after the extension marks ("..."), given that such types require a few more bits to encode than if they appeared before the extension mark? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bancroft Scott Toll Free :1-888-OSS-ASN1 Open Systems Solutions, Inc. International:1-609-987-9073 baos(a)oss.com Tech Support :1-732-249-5107 http://www.oss.com Fax :1-732-249-4636

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Q9 Sunriver meeting and White contributions available
by Gunnar Hellstrom 28 Sep '97

28 Sep '97

The report from the ITU-T Q9/16 - Accessability - activities in Sunriver is now available for download from http://www.pi.se/~omnitor/standd.htm There you can also find the white contributions for T.140 - Text cconversation protocol for general multimedia application T.134 - Text chat application entity in the T.120 environment V.18 - Revised Recommendation for text telephone modems. These draft recommendations, together with work decided to apply T.140 to the H.324 and H.323 environments form an important opportunity to establish conversation services that give equal opportunities for people who need to use text, video and voice in any combination for their basic communication needs. I want contact with organisations willing to implement the draft recommendations, in order to assure compatibility. Best regards Gunnar Hellström ------------------------------------------------ Gunnar Hellström Omnitor Alsnögatan 7, 4tr S-116 41 Stockholm SWEDEN Tel +46 701 100 501 Fax +46 8 556 002 06 E-mail: gunnar.hellstrom(a)omnitor.se WWW: public-www.pi.se/~omnitor ------------------------------------------------

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H.225.0vX => H.323vY
by Paul Long 26 Sep '97

26 Sep '97

Here is something that I finally came to understand on this reflector a few weeks ago through the kind patience of Jim Toga, Mark Reid, and Joerg Ott. Does the following need to be documented, or is everyone else comfortable with this just being understood by all present and future contributors, editors, and implementors? Given that 1. only the version of H.225.0 in use is present in the bit stream (as a protocol identifier), and 2. some H.323 semantics may depend on knowing the version of H.323 in use by the remote endpoint, then implementing H.323-version-dependent semantics requires that there is always a one-to-one relationship between H.323 and H.225.0 versions. For example, an H.323v4 terminal cannot use H.225.0v4 _or_ H.225.0v5 and, conversely, H.323v2 and H.323v3 terminals cannot both use H.225.0v3. -- Paul Long___________________________http://www.cmpu.net/public/plong Smith Micro Software, Inc.__________http://www.smithmicro.com/

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FW: H.235 White Contribution
by gthom 26 Sep '97

26 Sep '97

Mr. Okubo, I have put the "revised" final version of H.235 in the incomming directory. I included a cover sheet for the meeting. It has also been sent today to the TSB. File name: h235wht1.doc please move it to the 9801GEN directory, delete h235wht.doc, and delete any other versions in the incomming directory. Thank you Gary ------------------------------------- Name: Gary Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-215-657-5270 x23 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail: gthom(a)delta-info.com Date: 09/25/97 Time: 09:43:16 ------------------------------------- ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- Name: Gary Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-215-657-5270 x23 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail: gthom(a)delta-info.com Date: 09/26/97 Time: 10:29:32 -------------------------------------

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H.246 White Contribution
by gthom 25 Sep '97

25 Sep '97

Mr. Okubo, I have put the final version of H.246 in the incomming directory. I included a cover sheet for the meeting. It has also been sent today to the TSB. File name: h246wht.doc please move it to the 9801GEN directory and delete any other versions in the incomming directory. Thank you Gary ------------------------------------- Name: Gary Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-215-657-5270 x23 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail: gthom(a)delta-info.com Date: 09/25/97 Time: 09:43:16 ------------------------------------- ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- Name: Gary Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-215-657-5270 x23 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail: gthom(a)delta-info.com Date: 09/25/97 Time: 14:41:37 -------------------------------------

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Correction of H.310 RAST-5 stack for H.320/H.321 interoperation
by Sakae Okubo 25 Sep '97

25 Sep '97

Dear Q.12/16 broadband system experts, The Sunriver experts group meeting agreed to correct the H.320/H.321 interoperation mode stack of H.310 RAST-5 terminals and to apply this correction to H.310 Version 1. This agreement was reported to WP1&2/16 meeting on 12 September and the guidance obtained there was to use the procedure defined in Section 8.7.2 of Resolution No. 1 (Geneva, 1996) as attached. I need to submit a white contribution containing the proposed changes. I intend to use Annex to APC-1300 for this purpose. As this is a rather heavy (very visible to everybody) procedure, I need your cooperation to review thoroughly the Annex to APC-1300 so that our correction is defectless. Please return your advice as soon as possible, by 7 October at the latest. Then I will send the white contribution to Geneva for reference in the Director's invitation to the January-February meeting of SG16. Best regards, Sakae OKUBO (Mr.) ******************************************************************** Graphics Communication Laboratories Phone: +81 3 5351 0181 6F ANNEX TOSHIN BLDG. Fax: +81 3 5351 0184 4-36-19 Yoyogi, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo e-mail: okubo(a)gctech.co.jp 151 Japan ******************************************************************** Excerpt from Resolution No. 1 (Geneva, 1996) 8.7 Correction of defects 8.7.1 When a Study Group identifies the need for implementors to be made aware of defects (e.g. typographical errors, editorial errors, ambiguities, omissions or inconsistencies and technical errors) in a Recommendation, one mechanism that may be employed is an Implementors' Guide. This Guide is an historical document recording all identified defects and their status of correction, from their identification to final resolution, and would be issued in the Study Group's COM Series of documents. 8.7.2 Defects identified since the approval of the latest issue of the Implementors' Guide (par. 8.7.1) and their proposed corrections are referenced in the Director's invitation to the next Study Group meeting so the Study Group can address them. The Chairman shall be accountable for a fair decision about the nature of the proposed corrections, in the spirit which is expressed in par. 8.5.2 above. After approval by the Study Group (see par. 8.5.3 to par. 8.5.6), the Director shall announce the corrections in a Circular-letter and the Study Group will update the Implementors' Guide accordingly. END

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H.235 White Contribution
by gthom 25 Sep '97

25 Sep '97

Mr. Okubo, I have put the final version of H.235 in the incomming directory. I included a cover sheet for the meeting. It has also been sent today to the TSB. File name: h235wht.doc please move it to the 9801GEN directory and delete any other versions in the incomming directory. Thank you Gary ------------------------------------- Name: Gary Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-215-657-5270 x23 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail: gthom(a)delta-info.com Date: 09/25/97 Time: 09:43:16 -------------------------------------

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