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Re: [h323plus] [Openh323-devel] opalvoip vs h323plus
by Simon Horne 03 Nov '07

03 Nov '07

Robert I hate to be blunt but I would like to point out a few facts. The decision to fork Opal to OpalVoIP was purely yours and craigs. Nobody forced you to make the fork and you guys did it very much with your eyes wide open. You knew very well what new work I was doing in openH323 as well as the numerous projects such as Asterisk,Yate,GnuGk, PacPhone etc rely on OpenH323 for their H.323 support and that support would be disrupted if not lost with the abrupt move to OpalVoIP. There was a flurry of "concerned" private emails on the topic and was actively discussed on the days leading up to your public announcement. The decision to start h323plus was made in part in response to your decision and to ensure continuation of support for these "orphaned" projects and also to ensure the new work I was doing in OpenH323 saw the light of day. It became impossible to do in openh323, although I had made several public gestures to taking over the OpenH323 project, I never received any response from anybody on the topic so I was forced to take the action I did. Facts remain there has been little new H.323 work in Opal aside from the video plugin work with majority of that focus been on the SIP side which is completely understandable as this has been your prime focus. For instance, the new H.264 and MPEG4 codecs in the Opal repository didn't even have H.323 support. (Well not completely true, I'm testing H.264 code and will get to the MPEG4 shortly) To be honest, the H.323 support in Opal is currently at the level of about openH323 v1.18 meanwhile over the last 12 months I have been diligently adding H.230,H.239,H.249,H.341,H.350,H.460.x etc to the openH323 plugins branch (abit with Roberts paid (from somebody) support for the video plugins :) ) with the an aim to have that work ported to Opal when you guys were ready, nobody has EVER contacted me on doing this to date (aside from Hannes) and the offer is still there and I certainly welcome you to do so. Nothing at all changes that. As you are aware I still commit changes to ptlib and the opal plugins in OpalVoIP SVN and you are very much welcomed to take any of the new H323plus work and add it to OpalVoIP. I don't understand, Although the desire to make a smaller ASN.1 footprint is a completely fantastic idea but why do you want to effectively exclude such a large number of projects which currently rely on OpenH323 (now h323plus) or basically force these projects to recode to Opal. In many respects there is no compelling business case (or benefit) for these projects to move to Opal but more importantly, politics may be the deciding factor as unlike openH323, Opal may be seen as a competitor especially on the SIP side and with the current demand for H.323 very low they might just abandon any new H.323 work altogether. This is my greatest fear. The purpose of h323plus is to continue on from your (and craig's) fantastic work on OpenH323 and the unique neutral place OpenH323 had in the marketplace and develop it further with app sharing, conference controls etc,(hence the + in h323plus) and make that available to the widest audience possible, continuing the history of being the one really good advanced open source H.323 stack which everyone has relied on for so many years. Simon -----Original Message----- From: openh323-devel-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:openh323-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Robert Jongbloed Sent: Saturday, 3 November 2007 11:33 AM To: 'Discussion on enhancements and development issues with the OpenH323 library'; h323plus(a)lists.packetizer.com; Opalvoip-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Openh323-devel] opalvoip vs h323plus Sigh, I know I should not do this but .... > -----Original Message----- > From: openh323-devel-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:openh323- > devel-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Simon Horne > Sent: Sunday, 28 October 2007 3:19 PM ... > There are dozens of very popular open source stacks like asterisk and > Yate > that rely on openH323 for their H.323 support. With the migration to > Opal > this support is hampered as openH323 was seen as a component where as > OpalVoIP may be viewed a little differently. My greatest fear is that > H.323 > support in these projects would stagnate or be dropped entirely which > would > be a major loss. Hence the maintaining of that support in H323plus. And this is my greatest fear as well. Unfortunately when the primary champions of the H.323 protocol decide NOT to use the OPAL environment, they are going a long way to ensuring that this WILL be the case. > H323plus has a completely different focus to that of OpalVoIP and is > designed to undertake advanced H.323 development (hence the plus) and > unleach the full potential of what H.323 is capable of where are > OpalVoIP is > more of a generalist which to date has focused a lot of their > attention (of > late) on SIP. True, because much as I hate SIP as a protocol, we can't ignore it. Many consumers of OpenH323 (YATE, Asterisk, etc) have SIP as well, they just use someone else's stack. > Now saying that, it does not mean the work in H323plus > cannot > be ported across to OpalVoIP or visa versa. Case in point the Video > Plugins > from Opal (which Robert did a lot of work on) and the plan to port > the app > sharing H.239 to Opal (which I authored). The H323plus stack is built > off > ptlib and uses the same audio/video plugins which I still actively > assist in > maintaining. Yes, but as time goes on and the stacks continue to diverge, this gets harder and harder. For example, one idea Craig and I have toyed with is changing the ASN.1 PER system to use the iii compiler. This reduces the code footprint by a staggering amount. Literally an order of magnitude, a 3 megabyte executable being reduced to less than 300 kilobytes. This involves changing (in a semi-automatic way) thousands of lines of code. However, once that is done any porting between the two is ten times harder as diff's can no longer be used on files that used to be 95% identical. We don't know if we would do this or not, but maintaining the ability to port between OpenH323 and OPAL becomes a factor against in the decision making process. > The real question is not which is better but which better suits your > needs. > If you are starting a new project and need to support SIP with > quality H.323 > support then use OpalVoIP. If you have an existing project or don't > require > SIP but need advanced H.323 features such as app sharing, HD Video, > conference controls, LDAP, SNMP then you should consider H323plus. And therein lies the problem. What if someone wants both? They shouldn't need to choose. There is really no technical reason for it. If you use OPAL and just use H.323 (i.e. only create an H323EndPoint and not a SIPEndPoint), that should be IDENTICAL to using OpenH323. Once upon a time it was! The "generalist"/"specialist" argument not a good one IMHO. OPAL is a LIBRARY, as with any library you use as much or as little as you need and ignore the rest. .... > I certainly wish them all the best. However the move does have its > downside > as projects such as GnuGk, YATE, Asterisk are forced to migrate their > H.323 > support or let it stagnate (which is my greatest fear) which was the > prime > motivating force for h323plus. As I said before, if you were working on OPAL, then the H.323 within it would never stagnate. It is to my everlasting regret that I never could get around to producing a "porting guide" from OpenH323 to OPAL. A nice, detailed recipe on the API changes that need to be tweaked. There are already examples of dual mode applications in the contrib directory now and not THAT much changes. If I had managed to produce such a document then I do not think this would have been an issue. I say this because I believe the REAL reason applications such as GnuGk etc have not moved to OPAL is that the authors did not know, nor want to expend valuable time figuring out, how to change their applications to use the new API. I do not blame these people in the slightest for that decision. The fault is mine in not producing sufficient information to make it easy. However, that fundamental mistake several year ago has caused a juggernaut to move on. It is probably now impossible for OPAL to ever have the same functionality as OpenH323 as the likelihood of us having time to port the code is small (we need to earn a living), and the likelihood of someone paying for it is even smaller. I know if I was an application writer with requirements for H.323 with the extras and needed SIP too, I would be using OpenH323 and some other SIP stack such as oSIP/Vocal/reSIProcate etc. So, I believe the divergence will continue and this makes me profoundly sad. Robert Jongbloed OPAL/OpenH323 Architect and Co-founder. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Openh323-devel mailing list Openh323-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openh323-devel

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H.239 support in h323plus
by Simon Horne 02 Nov '07

02 Nov '07

H.239 support is now available in h323plus. I have updated simple in the application directory of the CVS to provide a sample application. You can place a call and press 'S' to start a fake application video window and 'E' to end it. You will need the latest CVS version of the H.263 video plugin to for it to work. You can get it from the opalVoIP repository or there is a mirror in the extensions/plugins directory in the h323plus CVS. Simon ----------------------- Simon Horne Principal Maintainer h323plus library www.h323plus.org h323:s.horne@packetizer.com

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h323plus v1.19.6 (Linux) Release
by Simon Horne 02 Nov '07

02 Nov '07

Guys An update has been release to fix a few issues with GnuGk http://www.h323plus.org/source/download/h323plus-v1_19_6-src.tar.gz The main download page should be updated shortly with the new link. Thanks to Jan Willamowius (GnuGk) is assisting resolving the issues and getting the release out. Simon ----------------------- Simon Horne Principal Maintainer h323plus library www.h323plus.org h323:s.horne@packetizer.com

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Socket aggregation not yet implemented on Unix?
by Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) 02 Nov '07

02 Nov '07

Hello, I have tried to compile H323Plus with Signaling and RTP aggregation, so I assumed that I needed to compile PTLib with socket aggregation first using "./configure --enable-sockagg" However, during the PTLib compilation I receive the message: "aggregation not yet implemented on Unix" Is there any ETA about this feature? Also, is this feature fully available on Windows? -- Best regards, Vlasis Hatzistavrou.

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Re: [h323plus] [Openh323-devel] help in creating WhiteBoard application using Opal
by Simon Horne 30 Oct '07

30 Oct '07

FYI opal is now opalVoIP and openH323 is continuing on as H323plus. OpenH323 (the project "in general" is no longer being actively developed. T.120 support in Opal is at the same level it as it is in OpenH323 very very basic. There is a project on sourceforge which has been abandoned for many many years based on OpenH323. http://sourceforge.net/projects/opent120/ T.120 development in general has pretty much stopped for various reasons including NAT issues. It uses TCP and you cannot easily use STUN, H.460.18/19 or emerging NAT technologies like P2Pnat to traverse NATs. That does not mean T.120 development has ceased. In h323plus www.h323plus.org we have added H.239 support or extended video to perform the same operation as T.120 app/whiteboarding would perform except over UDP so it can traverse NATs. It utilises the existing video plugin codecs to create a secondary video channel for the purpose of App Sharing. This work is continuing with the addition of app sharing controls such as H.249 collaberaton controls (remote userinputs, mouse movements and keystrokes). T.124 or Generic conference controls has also been resurrected and is being tunnelled through H.245 to perform "next generation" remote MCU control functionality such as Inviting and ejecting participants, Floor and chair controls and eventually the ability to introduce H.239 apps directly into conferences as presentations. If anyone would like to participate and/or contribute to this work then please let me know. Simon -----Original Message----- From: openh323-devel-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:openh323-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Vishak V. Kurup Sent: Monday, 29 October 2007 3:08 PM To: openh323-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Openh323-devel] help in creating WhiteBoard application using Opal Hi, I am Vishak. I want to develop a white board application for linux using gtk. I heard that whiteboard applications use T.120 protocol. T.120 protocol is in the stack of Opal. So can any one please tell me how create a whiteboard application. Regards

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Re: [h323plus] [Openh323-devel] opalvoip vs h323plus
by Hugo Pereira 28 Oct '07

28 Oct '07

Greetings, I have just read the history post about OPAL. I was already very impressed about the work of Craig and Robert. now i am even more! :) Spite In that text OPAL seens to be the successor of openh323, now this last has reemerged in the form of h323plus. - Does this new and enhanced protocol stack is is better? - What are the advantages/disadvantages of using one or another? - Are now these projects competing with each other? These are a few questions that question the existence of both projects simultaneously.

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opalvoip vs h323plus
by Hugo Pereira 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

Greetings, OpenH323 has branched into two distinct projects: opalvoip and h323plus. However each of these projects are best? Both of their based protocols (H323 and SIP) is well known in he videoconference worldwide. Because opalvoip supports both SIP and H323 i could point this project better than h323plus. Am i right? Best regards, Hugo Pereira

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HD Video support in H323plus
by Simon Horne 26 Oct '07

26 Oct '07

Just a quick note: H323 plus now supports HD video. The necessary changes have been made in the ptlib library. Simon ----------------------- Simon Horne Principal Maintainer h323plus library www.h323plus.org h323:s.horne@packetizer.com

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Using H323+ for Asterisk's chan_h323
by Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) 25 Oct '07

25 Oct '07

Hello all, I have been trying to compile chan_h323 with H323. It seems that I am almost done, although I get the following error: g++ -DNDEBUG -I../../include -include ../../include/asterisk/autoconfig.h -fPIC -DP_USE_PRAGMA -D_REENTRANT -fno-exceptions -Wall -fPIC -DPIC -DNDEBUG -I/Downloads/h323p/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -DPTRACING -I/Downloads/h323p/h323plus/include -Os -pipe -felide-constructors -Wreorder -c ast_h323.cxx -o ast_h323.o ast_h323.cxx: In destructor `virtual MyProcess::~MyProcess()': ast_h323.cxx:194: error: `timerChangePipe' was not declared in this scope make[2]: *** [ast_h323.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [h323/libchanh323.a] Error 2 make: *** [channels] Error 2 I went through the PWLib 1.12.0, and there is no occurrence of "timerChangePipe". In previous versions of PWLib "timerChangePipe" was used in quite a few places in the code. I googled it, but I still don't know what it does. If I comment it out in the destructor MyProcess::~MyProcess() it compiles, but the channel driver segfaults as soon as it is loaded... -- Best regards, Vlasis Hatzistavrou.

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H323Plus 1.19.5 released
by Simon Horne 24 Oct '07

24 Oct '07

To All Just a quick note the first H323Plus development release is now available for download H323Plus 1.19.5 can be downloaded from http://www.h323plus.org/source/ or http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=194599 Pwlib 1.12 is also available (mirror of openH323 release) Audio/Video Plugins (Mirror of OpalVoIP release) The number system will be a continuation of the OpenH323 number system with 1.20 being the first stable release. Special OpenH323 Transition Notes: Video is now plugins so you will need to remove references to the existing H.261 and H.263 libraries and all codecs are now loaded via AddAllCapabilities() Check you video input and output device code functions correctly as there are some improvements in ptlib which might affect the video display. Only H.261 & H.263 are supported with this release. H.264,MPEG4 are to come. DirectShow for Windows is not supported (yet) for VS 2003 & VS 2005. Of course you can direct your questions to the H323Plus mailing list. Simon

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