comments on AVD 2253 from Raleigh
Hi, I have some concerns about the changes proposed in this AVD.
1. The AVD adds a new data type called multiplepayloadstream that is intended to allow more then one payload in a stream. According to the ASN.1 you can have different media types in the same logical channel which is not a good practice and would break a lot of implementations. 2. The data type in H.245 open logical channel describe the media type but do not specify the RTP payload format used. There are cases were there is more then one way to build the RTP stream for example in H.263. In the OLC in H2250LogicalChannelParameters there is a RTPPayloadType parameter that describe the RTP payload. If the AVD is used to describe multiple streams there is no way to specify the packetization scheme used. 3. I think that the editor of H.235 will look to see if the proposed AVD allows to specify and change a key for each payload that can be used in the logical channel. I am not an expert on H.235
Thanks Roni Even
********************************************** Roni Even VP Product Planning Polycom Network Systems Tel: +972-3-9251200 Mobile: +972-55-481099 Fax: +972-3-9211571 Email: roni.even@polycom.co.il
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Roni,
,
I have some concerns about the changes proposed in this AVD.
- The AVD adds a new data type called multiplepayloadstream that is
intended to allow more then one payload in a stream. According to the
ASN.1
you can have different media types in the same logical channel which is
not
a good practice and would break a lot of implementations.
We already have precedence for this, such as RFC 2833. In addition, this feature would only be used if both sides advertise the capabilities, so I do not expect to see anything break.
- The data type in H.245 open logical channel describe the media type but
do not specify the RTP payload format used. There are cases were there is more then one way to build the RTP stream for example in H.263. In the OLC in H2250LogicalChannelParameters there is a RTPPayloadType parameter that describe the RTP payload. If the AVD is used to describe multiple streams there is no way to specify the packetization scheme used.
This might be true. Would it be possible to add those parameters as necessary in the future? At the moment, the only use for this capability at the moment is for modem over IP, wherein every payload that will be used is understood based solely on the capability, I believe-- perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, the important thing is to know whether the syntax precludes the specification of additional parameters.
- I think that the editor of H.235 will look to see if the proposed AVD
allows to specify and change a key for each payload that can be used in
the
logical channel. I am not an expert on H.235
Most definitely.. I would certainly welcome comments and input in the area of security.
Paul
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Paul- With respect to the security (i.e., encryption) of the various payloads in a "bundled" stream, there are several items we should consider: 1. It's much more convenient to presume that all payloads are encrypted under the same algorithm with the same key. This typically means that the RTP packets should carry successive sequence numbers and the same SSRC. 2. We have either or both of two types of RTP packets: one payload type per packet, and multiple payload types per packet. The payloads are all negotiated, so they are predictable - the multi-PT packets are RFC2198 encoded, and the encapsulating PT is set during negotiation. 3. When we're encrypting multiple payload types, and the payload type is preempted for encryption sync, we should presume/infer/require that the packet is encoded as per RFC2198, and the encryption payload is the encapsulating payload type, with the actual PT (or types) included in the body of the packet. 4. Inasmuch as the PTs can be inferred, in many cases, from the packet length, it would make some security sense to exclude the encapsulated payload headers from the encryption (this can be done because they all appear before any of the payloads.) On one hand, this prevents a known- plaintext attack; on the other, it might facilitate it if the content for some payload type is predictable. I'm sure Martin Euchner has some ideas about these items as well. -Bob ---------------------------------------------------- Bob Gilman rrg@avaya.com +1 303 538 3868
"Paul E. Jones" wrote:
Roni,
,
I have some concerns about the changes proposed in this AVD.
- The AVD adds a new data type called multiplepayloadstream that is
intended to allow more then one payload in a stream. According to the
ASN.1
you can have different media types in the same logical channel which is
not
a good practice and would break a lot of implementations.
We already have precedence for this, such as RFC 2833. In addition, this feature would only be used if both sides advertise the capabilities, so I do not expect to see anything break.
- The data type in H.245 open logical channel describe the media type but
do not specify the RTP payload format used. There are cases were there is more then one way to build the RTP stream for example in H.263. In the OLC in H2250LogicalChannelParameters there is a RTPPayloadType parameter that describe the RTP payload. If the AVD is used to describe multiple streams there is no way to specify the packetization scheme used.
This might be true. Would it be possible to add those parameters as necessary in the future? At the moment, the only use for this capability at the moment is for modem over IP, wherein every payload that will be used is understood based solely on the capability, I believe-- perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, the important thing is to know whether the syntax precludes the specification of additional parameters.
- I think that the editor of H.235 will look to see if the proposed AVD
allows to specify and change a key for each payload that can be used in
the
logical channel. I am not an expert on H.235
Most definitely.. I would certainly welcome comments and input in the area of security.
Paul
For help on this mail list, send "HELP ITU-SG16" in a message to listserv@lists.intel.com
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participants (3)
-
Even, Roni -
Paul E. Jones -
Robert R. Gilman