On TD26 - Fast TCS and M/S negotiation in H.323v4

Pete Cordell pete at TECH-KNOW-WARE.COM
Thu Jun 8 09:09:43 EDT 2000


Bob, and others,

Just in case any clarification is required,...

As you say, we certainly can NOT document that fast start is deprecated in
V4.  We may never be able to document such a thing.

However, we can certainly discuss it on the list at this time, and such
discussions may have a bearing on what we decide to do.

Pete.

=============================================
Pete Cordell
Tech-Know-Ware
pete at tech-know-ware.com
+44 1473 635863
=============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: Callaghan, Robert <Robert.Callaghan at ICN.SIEMENS.COM>
To: <ITU-SG16 at MAILBAG.INTEL.COM>
Sent: 08 June 2000 13:14
Subject: Re: On TD26 - Fast TCS and M/S negotiation in H.323v4


> Chris,
>
> It is valid for a discussion of the problems and desires on this list.
> However, no decision may be made on the list.  Decisions are made at
> meetings.
>
> The actual rules for the operation of the documents under the scope of a
> Study Group question is at the descression of the Rapateur.  At the worst,
> it is possible for the Rapateur to submit documents without input from
> anyone.  As I understand it, Q.13/16 has agreed to use meetings as the
> location where decisions are made.  It also guided us that conference
calls
> and the mailing list may be used to enhance the discussion.  Based on the
> direction given in Osaka, the correction to the agreed content for the
white
> paper being done in conference calls and the mailing list would not
include
> any substative change.  In my mind, dropping fast TCS and M/S is a
> substative change.  The choices should limited to including TD-26 as is
> based on the understanding of the participants or to find limited
> "editorial" changes that will not change the substance of the
contribution.
> Also deprecating FastStart is a substative change beyond any discussion at
> this time.  All things can be proposed in Portland, subject to the
> limitation to changes in the White Paper.  All things can be proposed in
> Geneva, subject to a potential delay in v4.
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Wayman Purvis [mailto:cwp at ISDN-COMMS.CO.UK]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 12:42 PM
> To: ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com
> Subject: Re: On TD26 - Fast TCS and M/S negotiation in H.323v4
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Is it really beyond the editor's discretion to react to problems which
come
> to
> light in between the formal meetings?  I thought that was one of the
> purposes
> of this list!  Alternative solutions are being sought, but the one
discussed
> in
> Osaka is clearly too flawed to be permitted to proceed.
>
> Regards,
> Chris
>
> "Callaghan, Robert" wrote:
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > I was afraid that this might happen.
> >
> > The changes under discussion were agreed to in Osaka, with the
> participants
> > understanding the risks.  To not include it in v4 would be a substantive
> > change from the agreed content which I challenge as being beyond the
> > discression of the editor to make editorial changes.
> >
> > There is a real problem in that keypad information must be sent before
the
> > connect message.  This is needed to support network services in the U.S.
> > Because the H.245 rules require the exchange of TSC and master-slave
> before
> > any other messages may be sent, there is a significate delay after fast
> > connect before keypad digits may be sent.  In Osaka, several proposal
were
> > submitted to solve this and other needed negotiation problems.  The
agreed
> > solution was the proposal for which you have reservations.  This is
needed
> > in the real world.
> >
> > PLEASE! find a solutions that will not remove these changes!
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul E. Jones [mailto:paulej at PACKETIZER.COM]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 11:14 PM
> > To: ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com
> > Subject: Re: On TD26 - Fast TCS and M/S negotiation in H.323v4
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > We agreed at the Osaka meeting to allow a SETUP to contain both the
> > fastStart and h245Control, but it has not been officially approved by
the
> > ITU.
> >
> > As it stands right now, I don't think I can agree to include it in
H.323v4
> > on the grounds that it breaks backward compatibility with V2-- I just
> don't
> > see a clean solution here.
> >
> > I'm opening to hearing more suggestions, but as you pointed out, there
are
> > two issues:
> >   1) H.323v2 states explicitly that it is illegal
> >   2) There is no way to know what version to destination EP is before
> >      sending this illegal message
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Long" <Plong at SMITHMICRO.COM>
> > To: <ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: On TD26 - Fast TCS and M/S negotiation in H.323v4
> >
> > > Pete,
> > >
> > > Table 13/H.225.0v3 shows that the User-to-User IE is mandatory. What
IEs
> > do
> > > you believe are not mandatory?
> > >
> > > H.323 states that the fastStart and h245Control components cannot both
> be
> > > present in the Setup message (do I need to quote it again?). A Setup
> > > User-to-User IE containing either or neither component is valid; one
> > > containing both is clearly invalid. Why do you think otherwise?
> > >
> > > H.323, by way of Q.931, requires that the called EP respond with
> > > ReleaseComplete with cause 100. There is no other appropriate cause.
> > >
> > > The feature that should be deprecated is the inclusion of both
fastStart
> > and
> > > h245Control in Setup. I was under the impression that either through
> IGv3
> > or
> > > H.323v4 this had already made it into the standard. If its not too
late,
> > we
> > > should simply remove this feature from any proposed text; if it is too
> > late,
> > > we should deprecate it because it causes insurmountable backward
> > > compatibility problems.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pete Cordell [mailto:pete at TECH-KNOW-WARE.COM]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 4:31 AM
> > > To: ITU-SG16 at MAILBAG.INTEL.COM
> > > Subject: Re: On TD26 - Fast TCS and M/S negotiation in H.323v4
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > I don't really believe that the release cause you cite is valid.  The
> > > IEs
> > > are not mandatory, and (taken by themselves) they don't have invalid
> > > content.  I don't believe it is the intent of this cause code to
signal
> > > the
> > > sort of thing that we are talking about here either.
> > >
> > > Are there any other causes and clauses that you think might be more
> > > appropriate?
> > >
> > > Also, when you say "the feature" should be deprecated, what are you
> > > referring to as "the feature"?  I'm not quite clear.
> > >
> > > Pete.
> > >
> > > =============================================
> > > Pete Cordell
> > > pete at tech-know-ware.com
> > > =============================================
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > For help on this mail list, send "HELP ITU-SG16" in a message to
> > > listserv at mailbag.intel.com
> > >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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>
> --
> Dr Chris Purvis -- Development Manager
> ISDN Communications Ltd, The Stable Block, Ronans, Chavey Down Road
> Winkfield Row, Berkshire.  RG42 6LY  ENGLAND
> Phone: +44 1344 899 007
> Fax:   +44 1344 899 001
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For help on this mail list, send "HELP ITU-SG16" in a message to
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>
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