[H.323-SIP/Internet] The reason.

Tom-PT Taylor taylor at NORTELNETWORKS.COM
Thu Feb 24 16:34:58 EST 2000


I should make one thing clear, as it does not seem to be outside the IETF.
There is only one official version of SIP: that presented in RFC 2705.  BUT,
just as SG 16 works on successive versions of H.323, the IETF is working on
the next version of SIP.  It is the discussion of what should be in the core
specification next time around versus what should be in various extension
documents which may be causing the confusion in people's minds.  BTW, it
seems to me that extensions are roughly the IETF equivalent of ITU-T
options.

That said, I agree with Bob that all that came out of the discussion was a
feeling that the terms of any such work need to be hammered out, plus a
willingness to consider further contributions so long as they don't get too
detailed.

Looks to me like this work is going to be done in TIPHON and the
interoperability consortia.  Neither the IETF nor the ITU-T really seems to
want it at this point.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Callaghan, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Callaghan at ICN.SIEMENS.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 4:10 PM
> To:   ITU-SG16 at MAILBAG.INTEL.COM
> Subject:      Re: [H.323-SIP/Internet] The reason.
> 
> Orit,
> 
> This is the statement from the Q.14 meeting report:
> 
> ======= Start
> 
> 3.8.5.1 D.352 - H.323-SIP Interworking [AT&T, et al]
> This was presented together with D.413. Comments included:
> ·       Concerns about joint development with IETF
> ·       Which version of SIP would be used?
> ·       Suggest postponing this until the next study period - need to look
> at how Q.13 and Q.14 were formulated 4 years ago and see how output
> compares
> with phrasing of work in these questions
> ·       Activities should include comparing call models, media signaling
> ·       Concerns about increased travel - maybe this should not be done in
> SG16
> ·       Forming a new question might not be the best answer - this would
> split the expertise in SG16 again (as Q.13 and Q.14 have moved away from
> joint sessions)
> ·       Need to work from official process of IETF (i.e., use only the
> IETF
> equivalent of a Recommendation)
> ·       Consider gatekeepers working with TRIP
> Individuals saw merit in the work. Invite contributions on how to approach
> the work. Need to get scenarios for progressing work in a controlled
> architectural approach. Ms. Levin has volunteered to draft a framework.
> See additional notes in Q.13 meeting report.
> 
> ======= End
> 
> This is the statement in the Q.13 report:
> 
> ======= Start
> 
> D.413(2/16)  [Canada]  - Interworking Between  H.323 and SIP Networks
> 
> This calls for the creation of an interoperability question in SG16, that
> would cover among other things, H.323/SIP interworking.
> 
> With regard to both D.352/D.413, it was noted that there are several
> versions of SIP, it is hard to start any work to interoperate with SIP as
> SIP is ill-defined at this point in time.  The wisdom of starting a new
> question near the end of the study period was also questioned.  It was
> also
> mentioned that a great deal of work needs to be done in terms of defining
> the procedures and architecture that would apply to this work.   One
> suggestion is that interoperability should be between  standards bodies
> such
> as the ITU and IETF, and this should be the focus of the work, i.e. that
> the
> target is official IETF RFCs and not SIP type documents produced by
> various
> other bodies.  There were various expressions of support that this should
> be
> studied, and contributions related to architectures and priorities are
> solicited.  It was agreed that contributions should address both Q13 and
> Q14.
> 
> ======= End
> 
> I cannot see in these statements any thing representing an agreement as to
> the work to be performed.  Your attached terms of reference were not
> approved at the working party, which is required, nor in the Question
> meeting.  Without an agreement as to the scope, I do not see how to move
> the
> work forward, even if many people see it as valuable. Therefore you paper
> on
> terms of reference can be accepted as a contribution to the Osaka meeting
> for discussion.
> 
> I do know that the proposal for a new question was rejected at the
> question
> level, and not brought forward to the working party or study group level.
> 
> Talking to Dale, I know that he wants to start the work with H.225.0 Annex
> G
> to TRIP.  Other items are to follow.
> 
> For me one of the problems is the culture clash.  I do not feel that the
> ITU
> should represent itself as SIP experts and I do not accept any IETF person
> as an H.323 expert.  Therefore the work should be done jointly.  No one
> wants to repeat the process used by H.248, so what is the process to be
> used?
> 
> Bob
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Callaghan
> Siemens Information and Communication Networks
> Tel: +1.561.997.3756    Fax: +1.561.997.3403
> Email:  Robert.Callaghan at ICN.Siemens.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Orit Levin [mailto:orit at radvision.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 2:27 PM
> To: ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com
> Subject: Re: [H.323-SIP/Internet] The reason.
> 
> 
> Hello Sebestyen!
> There is additional chapter from Q.14 Report with the same meaning, but I
> am
> sure it doesn't answer your question. During Geneva meeting additional
> related aspects were discussed. In my previous mail I was referring to the
> attached paper. (You will find references to relevant contributions in
> this
> paper.) Currently this paper is one of the opinions and possible
> directions.
> We are having this discussion on the list in order to get an understanding
> of the work we would like to pursue and prepare contributions for Osaka
> meeting.
> Best Regards,
> Orit Levin
> RADVision Inc.
> 575 Corporate Drive Suite 420
> Mahwah, NJ 07430
> Tel: 1 201 529 4300  (230)
> Fax: 1 201 529 3516
> www.radvision.com
> orit at radvision.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sebestyen Istvan ICN M CS 27 <Istvan.Sebestyen at icn.siemens.de>
> To: ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com <ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com>; 'Orit
> Levin' <orit at radvision.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 24, 2000 2:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [H.323-SIP/Internet] The reason.
> 
> 
> >Orit,
> >I am a bit confused on what should be done here. I have only found in
> TD-74
> >(ITU-T SG16 Working Party 2 Report) the following passages:
> >
> >"D.352(2/16) [Various] - H.323 SIP Interworking
> >
> >This document calls for a joint ITU-T/IETF study of H.323/SIP
> interworking.
> >
> >
> >D.413(2/16)  [Canada]  - Interworking Between  H.323 and SIP Networks
> >
> >This calls for the creation of an interoperability question in SG16, that
> >would cover among other things, H.323/SIP interworking.
> >
> >With regard to both D.352/D.413, it was noted that there are several
> >versions of SIP, it is hard to start any work to interoperate with SIP as
> >SIP is ill-defined at this point in time.  The wisdom of starting a new
> >question near the end of the study period was also questioned.  It was
> also
> >mentioned that a great deal of work needs to be done in terms of defining
> >the procedures and architecture that would apply to this work.   One
> >suggestion is that interoperability should be between  standards bodies
> such
> >as the ITU and IETF, and this should be the focus of the work, i.e. that
> the
> >target is official IETF RFCs and not SIP type documents produced by
> various
> >other bodies.  There were various expressions of support that this should
> be
> >studied, and contributions related to architectures and priorities are
> >solicited.  It was agreed that contributions should address both Q13 and
> >Q14."
> >
> >Is there anything else as "Mission Statement" for the interim work?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Istvan
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >Dr. Istvan Sebestyen
> >Siemens AG, ICN M CS27,
> >Hofmannstr. 51 D-81359 Munich
> >Tel:+49-89-722-47230
> >Fax:+49-89-722-47713
> >E-Mail office: istvan.sebestyen at icn.siemens.de; istvan at sebestyen.de
> >E-mail private: istvan_sebestyen at yahoo.com;
> >Siemens Intranet:http://netinfo.icn.siemens.de/es/team/essp/team/essp4
> >Siemens FTP:    ftp://mchhpn006a.mch.pn.siemens.de
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -
> >----------------
> >
> >> ----------
> >> From: Orit Levin[SMTP:orit at radvision.com]
> >> Reply To: Orit Levin
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 6:53 PM
> >> To: ITU-SG16 at mailbag.cps.intel.com
> >> Subject: [H.323-SIP/Internet] The reason.
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >> I would like to highlight the reason of "H.323-XXX" work in ITU-T as
> >> described in the initial paper.
> >>
> >> H.323 is NOT new to Internet. Internet is evolving and new
> specifications
> >> in "IP telephony" area are being defined in IETF. This is a time to
> >> consider each one of these specifications to be applied to H.323. If
> found
> >> useful from technical point of view (as a kind of Back End Services) or
> >> just as required for interworking purposes (such as H.323-SIP
> scenarios),
> >> standard definitions for H.323 should be formulated. These two are
> >> connected since the first definitely helps the second.
> >>
> >> The written above agenda is a proposal for the work scope. Based on our
> >> discussions, it seems like more then one company would like to see this
> >> work beyond the topic of H.323-SIP interoperability. (forget the name
> :-)
> >> ) If we agree that standardization is needed for this kind of work, the
> >> only possible way to do it is to participate in ITU-T process (with all
> >> its meaning).
> >>
> >> Currently we are in the beginning of the process sorting out topics of
> our
> >> interest. I think most of us are aware of the work being done in other
> >> organizations. We would like to see experts (including from TIPHON and
> >> IETF) presenting their concepts to ITU (starting from the mailing list)
> >> keeping us from repeating their work and being aligned with them.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Orit Levin
> >> RADVision Inc.
> >> 575 Corporate Drive Suite 420
> >> Mahwah, NJ 07430
> >> Tel: 1 201 529 4300  (230)
> >> Fax: 1 201 529 3516
> >> www.radvision.com
> >> orit at radvision.com
> >>
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