[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]]
Edgar Martinez [1]
martinze at CIG.MOT.COM
Mon Sep 13 10:24:48 EDT 1999
Dear Jin,
You questions are in Quotes
> > what are the
> > problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to
> > address/attack.
Lucent's contribution indicates that the alternatives
at hand have their faults. Which applies to the question
you asked.
>Also this document was not about IN and IP. (what it said is that IP based
>MSC can re-use IN platform easily). Would you shed some light on your
>proposed IN for IP mobility?
Re-read the statement I do not think a MSC SERVER
means the same as an MSC switch.
The following is from Lucent's document...
-- being of docuement copy ---
With this solution it is easier develop and to re-use existing
supplementary and IN services implementations. An MSC server
connected to the UTRAN handling CS mobiles is architecturally
in line with R99 MSCs and is less drastic a change.
This document compares the two options and makes
a recommendation on which should be standardized
as part of R00.
Use of ATM goes against the “All IP” definition.
3 PROPOSAL
Both solutions require a substantial amount of work. Given that it is expected
that most networks will be migrating from Release 99 and hence will
support a CS domain in the core network, it is questionable as to the
real need for either of these solutions.
However, some operators may require that all traffic be carried over a
common IP network as in the MSC server proposal.
However, if a solution must be standardized, it would be
sensible to choose the solution that will require the minimum amount
of standardization work. The MSC server proposal, although not complete, is
considered to be the easier to standardize. The advantage of this solution is
that it does not impact the GPRS nodes with what can be
considered to be legacy support.
-- end of docuement copy --
We have proposed the MSGK as a MSC Server, in TIPHON many
times since Tiphon 10. We are also working in the IP Mobility interworking with
legacy mobile systems. And we are working with other groups to include
IN into TIPHON.
The point here is that the work that 3GPP-2000 is just
started to look from a IP view, was started long before in TIPHON and SG16.
" I do not view 3GPP-2000 as a competitive architecture to TIPHON,
but one that should be complementary."
Regards,
Ed
"Yang, Jin (Jin)" wrote:
> Dear Edgar,
>
> The document you attached is a contribution from Lucent, comparing two
> (proposed by Ericsson and Alcatel) for CS terminal support in
> an "all IP" architecture. I did not quite catch the commonality between this
> discussion and what's happening in TIPHON. (I may miss something, in that
> case can you kelp?)
>
> Also this document was not about IN and IP. (what it said is that IP based
> MSC can re-use IN platform easily). Would you shed some light on your
> proposed IN for IP mobility?
>
> Thanks,
> Jin
>
> ------------------------------
> Dr. Jin Yang
> GSM, Lucent Technologies
> Sigma Building
> Windmill Hill Business Park
> Swindon SN5 6PP
> UK
> Email: jinyang at lucent.com
> Tel: +44 1793 736070
> Fax: +44 1793 883815
>
> > ----------
> > From: Edgar Martinez [1][SMTP:martinze at cig.mot.com]
> > Sent: 10 September 1999 19:39
> > To: Yang, Jin (Jin)
> > Cc: TIPHON_WG7 at LIST.ETSI.FR; Entirely SG16; TIPHON : Entirely
> > Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first
> > darft]]]]
> >
> > <<File: R99 support.doc>>
> > Dear Jin,
> >
> > You asked following question:
> >
> > > If we are going to describe a complete wireless access system, what are
> > the
> > > problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to
> > > address/attack.
> >
> > At the time I did not have the information to reply.
> > But since then I gotten some contributions that are
> > going into the next 3GPP-2000 meeting and with some
> > proposals I can agree on. The main issue I saw from
> > most of the contributions is that everything is centered
> > on the SGSN. I send a comment to 3GPP-2000 suggesting
> > the following. I mean if we can do IN on IP
> > why not Mobility on the same IP network??
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ed
> >
> > "Edgar Martinez [1]" wrote:
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: Re: Lucent contributions to R00 Ad hoc
> > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:55:53 -0400
> > > From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" <martinze at cig.mot.com>
> > > Organization: NSS-NAT
> > > To: "Daniel, Elizabeth Mary (Liz)" <lizdaniel at LUCENT.COM>
> > > CC: 3GPP_TSG_SA_WG2 at LIST.ETSI.FR
> > > References: <199909101704.MAA00109 at alba.cig.mot.com>
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Mary,
> > >
> > > I attend both TIPHON and ITU-SG16 and read with interest your
> > > contribution on support R99 CS domain terminals. If standardizing
> > > IP wireless is a big consideration. Has anyone looked at
> > > decomposing the SGSN and applying those functional elements into
> > >a existing IP standard, and an existing IP Architecture.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > "Daniel, Elizabeth Mary (Liz)" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Attached are two contributions to the R00 Ad Hoc. One on handover the
> > other
> > > > on support of R99 CS domain terminals.
> > > > <<s2k_contribs>>
> > > > > Liz Daniel
> > > > > GSM/UMTS Standards
> > > > > Lucent Technologies O
> > > > > Sigma, Swindon, UK
> > > > > Tel: +44 (0) 1793 88 3412
> > > > > Fax: +44 (0) 1793 88 3815
> > > > > E-Mail: lizdaniel at lucent.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Name: s2k_contribs.zip
> > > > s2k_contribs.zip Type: Winzip32 File (application/x-winzip)
> > > > Encoding: base64
> > > > Description: s2k_contribs
> > >
> > > --
> > > Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
> > > Email mailto:martinze at cig.mot.com
> > > FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
> > > 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
> > > Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
> > > Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]
> > Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 16:27:25 -0400
> > From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" <martinze at cig.mot.com>
> > Organization: NSS-NAT
> > To: "Yang, Jin (Jin)" <jinyang at LUCENT.COM>
> > CC: TIPHON_WG7 at LIST.ETSI.FR
> > References: <199909031416.JAA27858 at alba.cig.mot.com>
> >
> > Dear Jin,
> >
> > The cat is out of the bag..
> >
> > more to follow below...
> >
> > "Yang, Jin (Jin)" wrote:
> >
> > > Ed,
> > >
> > > more questions/comments follow.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jin
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Dr. Jin Yang
> > > Principal Systems Engineer
> > > GSM, Lucent Technologies
> > > Sigma Building
> > > Windmill Hill Business Park
> > > Swindon SN5 6PP
> > > UK
> > > Email: jinyang at lucent.com
> > > Tel: +44 1793 736070
> > > Fax: +44 1793 883815
> > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: Edgar Martinez [1][SMTP:martinze at CIG.MOT.COM]
> > > > Reply To: Edgar Martinez [1]
> > > > Sent: 02 September 1999 12:56
> > > > To: TIPHON_WG7 at LIST.ETSI.FR
> > > > Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]
> > > >
> > > > Dear All,
> > > >
> > > > Very good questions:
> > > >
> > > > I passing this email on because
> > > > MR. Binar questions highlights
> > > > some key issues.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > FAQ's on IP wireless mobility.
> > > >
> > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Subject: Re: H.323 mobility first darft
> > > > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:15:17 -0400
> > > > From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" <martinze at cig.mot.com>
> > > > Organization: NSS-NAT
> > > > To: "BINAR, Simon" <binar at isd-nec.co.uk>
> > > > References: <199909011655.LAA02929 at alba.cig.mot.com>
> > > >
> > > > Hi Simon,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your comments,
> > > > Please read on...
> > > >
> > > > "BINAR, Simon" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Ed,
> > > > >
> > > > > I looked at the document, and I would have a couple of
> > > > > questions/comments about it.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems to me that the draft provides the description of a complete
> > > > > wireless access system.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, based on the SG16 Terms of reference.
> > > If we are going to describe a complete wireless access system, what are
> > the
> > > problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to
> > > address/attack.
> >
> > I can not attack something is being-defined, If it isn't defined.
> > If it is defined to do something and it does it, that's fine.
> > Lets defined wireless VoIP and address and attack those
> > areas. Which is what TIPHON and SG16 is doing...all
> > end-to-end IP issues.
> >
> > It is easier to be backward comparable them forward comparable.
> > e.g., old Rotary phones can not outpluse DTMF and
> > New DTMF phones can do both. Both types of phones
> > are still supported but the old Analog systems are gone,
> > and so are the Adjuncts (today it is called the overlay solutation).
> >
> > Lets focus on IP.
> >
> > If the Radio Access interface has the option to support
> > a pure VoIP connection.
> >
> > The underline pure IP (pIP) Network will need to support
> > what TIPHON is working on now, which is : charging/billing and security,
> > call control procedures, naming and address translation issues,
> > end to end quality of service aspects, verification,
> > demonstration of legacy system interworking. All covered
> > under the TIPHON systems.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > However, I don't understand the point of
> > > > > providing such a description, since wireless access systems suitable
> > for
> > > > > multimedia communications are being specified elsewhere (3GPP).
> > > >
> > > > Based on the Terms of reference and the Ad-hoc meetings we had in
> > SG16.
> > > > The assumptions where:
> > > >
> > > > 1. We will have H.323 wireless mobile handsets
> > > > 2. We will provide IP mobility regardless of terminal type Fixed or
> > > > Wireless
> > > > 3. We will interwork with the legacy wireless (Networks and Terminals)
> > > > which includes handovers..
> > > >
> > > UMTS, for example, allows you to do 1 and 2. and 3GPP and 3GIP are
> > working
> > > on 3 (with lot of progresses already).
> >
> > If you imply that UMTS directly supports the H.323 Gateway, Gatekeeper
> > MCU, SGW and MGW and both wireless/fixed H.323 PC terminals.
> > Great I'll support it. Can you provide us reference to your claims.
> > Also note that wireless mobility for a H.323 fixed terminals does not
> > include
> > handover, but for H.323 mobile terminal (MT) handover is included.
> >
> > Second point to your question, It would be nice to know what legacy
> > NETWORK(s) is 3GPP-3GIP interworking with, since the voice and data is
> > spit
> > at the RAN where the voice traffic goes to the MSC and the data goes
> > to the GPRS network. You call that alot of progresses? smells like
> > adjuncts..
> > But you know all this I guess you wanted my confirmation?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 3GPP or 3GPP-2000 is based on GPRS and something called
> > > > the layered approach to the IP network. Which ready means
> > > > two separate networks one for IP and the other for mobility
> > > > connected via a GW. The RAN interface (Iu-ps) to the GPRS
> > > > network element is a lower layer ATM/AAL2 with IP on
> > > > the upper layer connected to E-SGSN switch.
> > > Iu-ps (transport) has GTP/IP/ATM. Do you have any concern here?
> >
> > I miss something, Why ATM? in a end-to-end IP network.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I can not be convinced or believe that this is the pure
> > > > IP solution for wireless.
> > > what is a pure IP solution in your mind?
> >
> > An network that is all IP end-to-end as
> > for your example (Applications/GTP/IP).
> > Like TIPHON system with molitity is a
> > pure IP solution.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jin
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Shouldn't the wireless access system rather be completely
> > transparent to
> > > > > H.323 signalling?
> > > >
> > > > It is completely transparent, take alway the WAU and the HZR
> > > > and you have your basic H.323 VoIP network.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Additionally, it seems to me that the proposed architecture does not
> > > > > take into account mobility between fixed terminals. I can imagine
> > > > > situations whereby a user could take his SIM card from one fixed
> > H.323
> > > > > terminal to another. In such a case, mobility support at the H.323
> > > > > application layer would be required, however, no wireless access
> > system
> > > > > would be involved, and thus, components such as the WAU would not be
> > > > > required either...
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you are right on the money, look at 8.2.1.5 "H.323 fixed terminal
> > > > registration in a visited IP network" which implies exactly what
> > > > you stated. The way it works from my research, is that the
> > > > IMIS is programed in to the SIM card. The user ID is the IMIS once
> > > > the user, that is, the IMIS is registered in the HZR.
> > > > The user can plug the SIM card with the proper IMIS
> > > > in a wireless terminal or fixed terminal. Please note that in the
> > > > two fixed case call flows both 8.2.1.5 and 8.2.1.6 no WAU are
> > > > used or shown. Only for the wireless cases.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > > Simon Binar
> > > > > NEC Europe Ltd.
> > > > > Tel: +44 (0)1753 606933
> > > > > Fax: +44 (0)1753 606901
> > > > > EMail: binar at isd-nec.co.uk
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > DISCLAIMER: Any views or opinions expressed in
> > > > > this E-Mail message should be considered as the
> > > > > personal views/opinions of the author. They do
> > > > > not necessarily represent the views of the
> > > > > author's employer.
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Edgar Martinez [1] [mailto:martinze at CIG.MOT.COM]
> > > > > > Sent: 23 August 1999 08:19
> > > > > > To: TIPHON at LIST.ETSI.FR
> > > > > > Subject: H.323 mobility first darft
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear All
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have uploaded the first H.323 draft, for user
> > > > > > and service mobility.
> > > > > > The focus of the document at the moment is to provide full
> > > > > > mobility regards of terminal types, that is either fixed or
> > wireless
> > > > > > h.323 terminals. Only using H.323 messages with additional
> > > > > > extensions to provide seamless wireless handover and
> > > > > > terminal roaming.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone can pick-up a copy in following wed sites.
> > > > > >
> > > > > http://people.itu.int/~emartine/temp/
> > > > > or
> > > > > ftp://standard.pictel.com/avc-site/Incoming/
> > > > >
> > > > > The Filename is h323mob01.zip
> > > > >
> > > > > Comments are welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > --
> > > > > Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
> > > > > Email mailto:martinze at cig.mot.com
> > > > > FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
> > > > > 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
> > > > > Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
> > > > > Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Mail archive for TIPHON can be browsed at the following url :
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.etsi.org/tiphon/mailing.htm
> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
> > > > Email mailto:martinze at cig.mot.com
> > > > FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
> > > > 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
> > > > Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
> > > > Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Mail archive for TIPHON_WG7 can be browsed at the following url :
> > > >
> > > > http://www.etsi.org/tiphon/mailing.htm
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Mail archive for TIPHON_WG7 can be browsed at the following url :
> > >
> > > http://www.etsi.org/tiphon/mailing.htm
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
> > Email mailto:martinze at cig.mot.com
> > FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
> > 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
> > Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
> > Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
> >
--
Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
Email mailto:martinze at cig.mot.com
FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
More information about the sg16-avd
mailing list