Dear Edgar,
The document you attached is a contribution from Lucent, comparing two
alternatives (proposed by Ericsson and Alcatel) for CS terminal support in
an "all IP" architecture. I did not quite catch the commonality between this
discussion and what's happening in TIPHON. (I may miss something, in that
case can you kelp?)
Also this document was not about IN and IP. (what it said is that IP based
MSC can re-use IN platform easily). Would you shed some light on your
proposed IN for IP mobility?
Thanks,
Jin
------------------------------
Dr. Jin Yang
GSM, Lucent Technologies
Sigma Building
Windmill Hill Business Park
Swindon SN5 6PP
UK
Email: jinyang@lucent.com
Tel: +44 1793 736070
Fax: +44 1793 883815
----------
From: Edgar Martinez [1][SMTP:martinze@cig.mot.com]
Sent: 10 September 1999 19:39
To: Yang, Jin (Jin)
Cc: TIPHON_WG7@LIST.ETSI.FR; Entirely SG16; TIPHON : Entirely
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first
darft]]]]
<<File: R99 support.doc>>
Dear Jin,
You asked following question:
If we are going to describe a complete wireless access system, what are
the
problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to
address/attack.
At the time I did not have the information to reply.
But since then I gotten some contributions that are
going into the next 3GPP-2000 meeting and with some
proposals I can agree on. The main issue I saw from
most of the contributions is that everything is centered
on the SGSN. I send a comment to 3GPP-2000 suggesting
the following. I mean if we can do IN on IP
why not Mobility on the same IP network??
Regards,
Ed
"Edgar Martinez [1]" wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Lucent contributions to R00 Ad hoc
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:55:53 -0400
From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" <martinze@cig.mot.com>
Organization: NSS-NAT
To: "Daniel, Elizabeth Mary (Liz)" <lizdaniel@LUCENT.COM>
CC: 3GPP_TSG_SA_WG2@LIST.ETSI.FR
References: <199909101704.MAA00109@alba.cig.mot.com>
Dear Mary,
I attend both TIPHON and ITU-SG16 and read with interest your
contribution on support R99 CS domain terminals. If standardizing
IP wireless is a big consideration. Has anyone looked at
decomposing the SGSN and applying those functional elements into
a existing IP standard, and an existing IP Architecture.
Regards,
Ed
"Daniel, Elizabeth Mary (Liz)" wrote:
Attached are two contributions to the R00 Ad Hoc. One on handover the
other
on support of R99 CS domain terminals.
<<s2k_contribs>>
Liz Daniel
GSM/UMTS Standards
Lucent Technologies O
Sigma, Swindon, UK
Tel: +44 (0) 1793 88 3412
Fax: +44 (0) 1793 88 3815
E-Mail: lizdaniel@lucent.com
Name: s2k_contribs.zip
s2k_contribs.zip Type: Winzip32 File (application/x-winzip)
Encoding: base64
Description: s2k_contribs
--
Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com
FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 16:27:25 -0400
From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" <martinze@cig.mot.com>
Organization: NSS-NAT
To: "Yang, Jin (Jin)" <jinyang@LUCENT.COM>
CC: TIPHON_WG7@LIST.ETSI.FR
References: <199909031416.JAA27858@alba.cig.mot.com>
Dear Jin,
The cat is out of the bag..
more to follow below...
"Yang, Jin (Jin)" wrote:
Ed,
more questions/comments follow.
Thanks,
Jin
------------------------------
Dr. Jin Yang
Principal Systems Engineer
GSM, Lucent Technologies
Sigma Building
Windmill Hill Business Park
Swindon SN5 6PP
UK
Email: jinyang@lucent.com
Tel: +44 1793 736070
Fax: +44 1793 883815
----------
From: Edgar Martinez [1][SMTP:martinze@CIG.MOT.COM]
Reply To: Edgar Martinez [1]
Sent: 02 September 1999 12:56
To: TIPHON_WG7@LIST.ETSI.FR
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]
Dear All,
Very good questions:
I passing this email on because
MR. Binar questions highlights
some key issues.
Ed
FAQ's on IP wireless mobility.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: H.323 mobility first darft
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:15:17 -0400
From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" <martinze@cig.mot.com>
Organization: NSS-NAT
To: "BINAR, Simon" <binar@isd-nec.co.uk>
References: <199909011655.LAA02929@alba.cig.mot.com>
Hi Simon,
Thank you for your comments,
Please read on...
"BINAR, Simon" wrote:
Hi Ed,
I looked at the document, and I would have a couple of
questions/comments about it.
It seems to me that the draft provides the description of a complete
wireless access system.
Yes, based on the SG16 Terms of reference.
If we are going to describe a complete wireless access system, what are
the
problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to
address/attack.
I can not attack something is being-defined, If it isn't defined.
If it is defined to do something and it does it, that's fine.
Lets defined wireless VoIP and address and attack those
areas. Which is what TIPHON and SG16 is doing...all
end-to-end IP issues.
It is easier to be backward comparable them forward comparable.
e.g., old Rotary phones can not outpluse DTMF and
New DTMF phones can do both. Both types of phones
are still supported but the old Analog systems are gone,
and so are the Adjuncts (today it is called the overlay solutation).
Lets focus on IP.
If the Radio Access interface has the option to support
a pure VoIP connection.
The underline pure IP (pIP) Network will need to support
what TIPHON is working on now, which is : charging/billing and security,
call control procedures, naming and address translation issues,
end to end quality of service aspects, verification,
demonstration of legacy system interworking. All covered
under the TIPHON systems.
However, I don't understand the point of
providing such a description, since wireless access systems suitable
for
multimedia communications are being specified elsewhere (3GPP).
Based on the Terms of reference and the Ad-hoc meetings we had in
SG16.
The assumptions where:
1. We will have H.323 wireless mobile handsets
2. We will provide IP mobility regardless of terminal type Fixed or
Wireless
3. We will interwork with the legacy wireless (Networks and Terminals)
which includes handovers..
UMTS, for example, allows you to do 1 and 2. and 3GPP and 3GIP are
working
on 3 (with lot of progresses already).
If you imply that UMTS directly supports the H.323 Gateway, Gatekeeper
MCU, SGW and MGW and both wireless/fixed H.323 PC terminals.
Great I'll support it. Can you provide us reference to your claims.
Also note that wireless mobility for a H.323 fixed terminals does not
include
handover, but for H.323 mobile terminal (MT) handover is included.
Second point to your question, It would be nice to know what legacy
NETWORK(s) is 3GPP-3GIP interworking with, since the voice and data is
spit
at the RAN where the voice traffic goes to the MSC and the data goes
to the GPRS network. You call that alot of progresses? smells like
adjuncts..
But you know all this I guess you wanted my confirmation?
3GPP or 3GPP-2000 is based on GPRS and something called
the layered approach to the IP network. Which ready means
two separate networks one for IP and the other for mobility
connected via a GW. The RAN interface (Iu-ps) to the GPRS
network element is a lower layer ATM/AAL2 with IP on
the upper layer connected to E-SGSN switch.
Iu-ps (transport) has GTP/IP/ATM. Do you have any concern here?
I miss something, Why ATM? in a end-to-end IP network.
I can not be convinced or believe that this is the pure
IP solution for wireless.
what is a pure IP solution in your mind?
An network that is all IP end-to-end as
for your example (Applications/GTP/IP).
Like TIPHON system with molitity is a
pure IP solution.
Thanks,
Ed
Thanks,
Jin
Shouldn't the wireless access system rather be completely
transparent to
H.323 signalling?
It is completely transparent, take alway the WAU and the HZR
and you have your basic H.323 VoIP network.
Additionally, it seems to me that the proposed architecture does not
take into account mobility between fixed terminals. I can imagine
situations whereby a user could take his SIM card from one fixed
H.323
terminal to another. In such a case, mobility support at the H.323
application layer would be required, however, no wireless access
system
would be involved, and thus, components such as the WAU would not be
required either...
Yes, you are right on the money, look at 8.2.1.5 "H.323 fixed terminal
registration in a visited IP network" which implies exactly what
you stated. The way it works from my research, is that the
IMIS is programed in to the SIM card. The user ID is the IMIS once
the user, that is, the IMIS is registered in the HZR.
The user can plug the SIM card with the proper IMIS
in a wireless terminal or fixed terminal. Please note that in the
two fixed case call flows both 8.2.1.5 and 8.2.1.6 no WAU are
used or shown. Only for the wireless cases.
----------------------------------------------
Simon Binar
NEC Europe Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0)1753 606933
Fax: +44 (0)1753 606901
EMail: binar@isd-nec.co.uk
-----------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: Any views or opinions expressed in
this E-Mail message should be considered as the
personal views/opinions of the author. They do
not necessarily represent the views of the
author's employer.
-----Original Message-----
From: Edgar Martinez [1] [mailto:martinze@CIG.MOT.COM]
Sent: 23 August 1999 08:19
To: TIPHON@LIST.ETSI.FR
Subject: H.323 mobility first darft
Dear All
I have uploaded the first H.323 draft, for user
and service mobility.
The focus of the document at the moment is to provide full
mobility regards of terminal types, that is either fixed or
wireless
h.323 terminals. Only using H.323 messages with additional
extensions to provide seamless wireless handover and
terminal roaming.
Anyone can pick-up a copy in following wed sites.
http://people.itu.int/~emartine/temp/
or
ftp://standard.pictel.com/avc-site/Incoming/
The Filename is h323mob01.zip
Comments are welcome.
Best Regards,
--
Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com
FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
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Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com
FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
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--
Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer
Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com
FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278
1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004
Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/
Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
Yang, Jin (Jin)