Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]]
Dear Jin,
You questions are in Quotes
what are the problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to address/attack.
Lucent's contribution indicates that the alternatives at hand have their faults. Which applies to the question you asked.
Also this document was not about IN and IP. (what it said is that IP based MSC can re-use IN platform easily). Would you shed some light on your proposed IN for IP mobility?
Re-read the statement I do not think a MSC SERVER means the same as an MSC switch.
The following is from Lucent's document... -- being of docuement copy ---
With this solution it is easier develop and to re-use existing supplementary and IN services implementations. An MSC server connected to the UTRAN handling CS mobiles is architecturally in line with R99 MSCs and is less drastic a change.
This document compares the two options and makes a recommendation on which should be standardized as part of R00.
Use of ATM goes against the All IP definition.
3 PROPOSAL Both solutions require a substantial amount of work. Given that it is expected that most networks will be migrating from Release 99 and hence will support a CS domain in the core network, it is questionable as to the real need for either of these solutions.
However, some operators may require that all traffic be carried over a common IP network as in the MSC server proposal. However, if a solution must be standardized, it would be sensible to choose the solution that will require the minimum amount of standardization work. The MSC server proposal, although not complete, is considered to be the easier to standardize. The advantage of this solution is that it does not impact the GPRS nodes with what can be considered to be legacy support. -- end of docuement copy --
We have proposed the MSGK as a MSC Server, in TIPHON many times since Tiphon 10. We are also working in the IP Mobility interworking with legacy mobile systems. And we are working with other groups to include IN into TIPHON.
The point here is that the work that 3GPP-2000 is just started to look from a IP view, was started long before in TIPHON and SG16.
" I do not view 3GPP-2000 as a competitive architecture to TIPHON, but one that should be complementary."
Regards, Ed
"Yang, Jin (Jin)" wrote:
Dear Edgar,
The document you attached is a contribution from Lucent, comparing two (proposed by Ericsson and Alcatel) for CS terminal support in an "all IP" architecture. I did not quite catch the commonality between this discussion and what's happening in TIPHON. (I may miss something, in that case can you kelp?)
Also this document was not about IN and IP. (what it said is that IP based MSC can re-use IN platform easily). Would you shed some light on your proposed IN for IP mobility?
Thanks, Jin
Dr. Jin Yang GSM, Lucent Technologies Sigma Building Windmill Hill Business Park Swindon SN5 6PP UK Email: jinyang@lucent.com Tel: +44 1793 736070 Fax: +44 1793 883815
From: Edgar Martinez [1][SMTP:martinze@cig.mot.com] Sent: 10 September 1999 19:39 To: Yang, Jin (Jin) Cc: TIPHON_WG7@LIST.ETSI.FR; Entirely SG16; TIPHON : Entirely Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]]
<<File: R99 support.doc>> Dear Jin,
You asked following question:
If we are going to describe a complete wireless access system, what are
the
problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to address/attack.
At the time I did not have the information to reply. But since then I gotten some contributions that are going into the next 3GPP-2000 meeting and with some proposals I can agree on. The main issue I saw from most of the contributions is that everything is centered on the SGSN. I send a comment to 3GPP-2000 suggesting the following. I mean if we can do IN on IP why not Mobility on the same IP network??
Regards, Ed
"Edgar Martinez [1]" wrote:
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Lucent contributions to R00 Ad hoc Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:55:53 -0400 From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" martinze@cig.mot.com Organization: NSS-NAT To: "Daniel, Elizabeth Mary (Liz)" lizdaniel@LUCENT.COM CC: 3GPP_TSG_SA_WG2@LIST.ETSI.FR References: 199909101704.MAA00109@alba.cig.mot.com
Dear Mary,
I attend both TIPHON and ITU-SG16 and read with interest your contribution on support R99 CS domain terminals. If standardizing IP wireless is a big consideration. Has anyone looked at decomposing the SGSN and applying those functional elements into a existing IP standard, and an existing IP Architecture.
Regards, Ed
"Daniel, Elizabeth Mary (Liz)" wrote:
Attached are two contributions to the R00 Ad Hoc. One on handover the
other
on support of R99 CS domain terminals. <<s2k_contribs>>
Liz Daniel GSM/UMTS Standards Lucent Technologies O Sigma, Swindon, UK Tel: +44 (0) 1793 88 3412 Fax: +44 (0) 1793 88 3815 E-Mail: lizdaniel@lucent.com
Name: s2k_contribs.zips2k_contribs.zip Type: Winzip32 File (application/x-winzip) Encoding: base64 Description: s2k_contribs
-- Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004 Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/ Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]] Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 16:27:25 -0400 From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" martinze@cig.mot.com Organization: NSS-NAT To: "Yang, Jin (Jin)" jinyang@LUCENT.COM CC: TIPHON_WG7@LIST.ETSI.FR References: 199909031416.JAA27858@alba.cig.mot.com
Dear Jin,
The cat is out of the bag..
more to follow below...
"Yang, Jin (Jin)" wrote:
Ed,
more questions/comments follow.
Thanks, Jin
Dr. Jin Yang Principal Systems Engineer GSM, Lucent Technologies Sigma Building Windmill Hill Business Park Swindon SN5 6PP UK Email: jinyang@lucent.com Tel: +44 1793 736070 Fax: +44 1793 883815
From: Edgar Martinez [1][SMTP:martinze@CIG.MOT.COM] Reply To: Edgar Martinez [1] Sent: 02 September 1999 12:56 To: TIPHON_WG7@LIST.ETSI.FR Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: H.323 mobility first darft]]]
Dear All,
Very good questions:
I passing this email on because MR. Binar questions highlights some key issues.
Ed
FAQ's on IP wireless mobility.
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: H.323 mobility first darft Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:15:17 -0400 From: "Edgar Martinez [1]" martinze@cig.mot.com Organization: NSS-NAT To: "BINAR, Simon" binar@isd-nec.co.uk References: 199909011655.LAA02929@alba.cig.mot.com
Hi Simon,
Thank you for your comments, Please read on...
"BINAR, Simon" wrote:
Hi Ed,
I looked at the document, and I would have a couple of questions/comments about it.
It seems to me that the draft provides the description of a complete wireless access system.
Yes, based on the SG16 Terms of reference.
If we are going to describe a complete wireless access system, what are
the
problems/weakness of the being-defined 3G systems we are going to address/attack.
I can not attack something is being-defined, If it isn't defined. If it is defined to do something and it does it, that's fine. Lets defined wireless VoIP and address and attack those areas. Which is what TIPHON and SG16 is doing...all end-to-end IP issues.
It is easier to be backward comparable them forward comparable. e.g., old Rotary phones can not outpluse DTMF and New DTMF phones can do both. Both types of phones are still supported but the old Analog systems are gone, and so are the Adjuncts (today it is called the overlay solutation).
Lets focus on IP.
If the Radio Access interface has the option to support a pure VoIP connection.
The underline pure IP (pIP) Network will need to support what TIPHON is working on now, which is : charging/billing and security, call control procedures, naming and address translation issues, end to end quality of service aspects, verification, demonstration of legacy system interworking. All covered under the TIPHON systems.
However, I don't understand the point of providing such a description, since wireless access systems suitable
for
multimedia communications are being specified elsewhere (3GPP).
Based on the Terms of reference and the Ad-hoc meetings we had in
SG16.
The assumptions where:
- We will have H.323 wireless mobile handsets
- We will provide IP mobility regardless of terminal type Fixed or
Wireless 3. We will interwork with the legacy wireless (Networks and Terminals) which includes handovers..
UMTS, for example, allows you to do 1 and 2. and 3GPP and 3GIP are
working
on 3 (with lot of progresses already).
If you imply that UMTS directly supports the H.323 Gateway, Gatekeeper MCU, SGW and MGW and both wireless/fixed H.323 PC terminals. Great I'll support it. Can you provide us reference to your claims. Also note that wireless mobility for a H.323 fixed terminals does not include handover, but for H.323 mobile terminal (MT) handover is included.
Second point to your question, It would be nice to know what legacy NETWORK(s) is 3GPP-3GIP interworking with, since the voice and data is spit at the RAN where the voice traffic goes to the MSC and the data goes to the GPRS network. You call that alot of progresses? smells like adjuncts.. But you know all this I guess you wanted my confirmation?
3GPP or 3GPP-2000 is based on GPRS and something called the layered approach to the IP network. Which ready means two separate networks one for IP and the other for mobility connected via a GW. The RAN interface (Iu-ps) to the GPRS network element is a lower layer ATM/AAL2 with IP on the upper layer connected to E-SGSN switch.
Iu-ps (transport) has GTP/IP/ATM. Do you have any concern here?
I miss something, Why ATM? in a end-to-end IP network.
I can not be convinced or believe that this is the pure IP solution for wireless.
what is a pure IP solution in your mind?
An network that is all IP end-to-end as for your example (Applications/GTP/IP). Like TIPHON system with molitity is a pure IP solution.
Thanks,
Ed
Thanks, Jin
Shouldn't the wireless access system rather be completely
transparent to
H.323 signalling?
It is completely transparent, take alway the WAU and the HZR and you have your basic H.323 VoIP network.
Additionally, it seems to me that the proposed architecture does not take into account mobility between fixed terminals. I can imagine situations whereby a user could take his SIM card from one fixed
H.323
terminal to another. In such a case, mobility support at the H.323 application layer would be required, however, no wireless access
system
would be involved, and thus, components such as the WAU would not be required either...
Yes, you are right on the money, look at 8.2.1.5 "H.323 fixed terminal registration in a visited IP network" which implies exactly what you stated. The way it works from my research, is that the IMIS is programed in to the SIM card. The user ID is the IMIS once the user, that is, the IMIS is registered in the HZR. The user can plug the SIM card with the proper IMIS in a wireless terminal or fixed terminal. Please note that in the two fixed case call flows both 8.2.1.5 and 8.2.1.6 no WAU are used or shown. Only for the wireless cases.
Simon Binar NEC Europe Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)1753 606933 Fax: +44 (0)1753 606901 EMail: binar@isd-nec.co.uk
DISCLAIMER: Any views or opinions expressed in this E-Mail message should be considered as the personal views/opinions of the author. They do not necessarily represent the views of the author's employer.
-----Original Message----- From: Edgar Martinez [1] [mailto:martinze@CIG.MOT.COM] Sent: 23 August 1999 08:19 To: TIPHON@LIST.ETSI.FR Subject: H.323 mobility first darft
Dear All
I have uploaded the first H.323 draft, for user and service mobility. The focus of the document at the moment is to provide full mobility regards of terminal types, that is either fixed or
wireless
h.323 terminals. Only using H.323 messages with additional extensions to provide seamless wireless handover and terminal roaming.
Anyone can pick-up a copy in following wed sites.
http://people.itu.int/~emartine/temp/ or ftp://standard.pictel.com/avc-site/Incoming/
The Filename is h323mob01.zip
Comments are welcome.
Best Regards,
Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004 Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/ Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
Mail archive for TIPHON can be browsed at the following url :
http://www.etsi.org/tiphon/mailing.htm
-- Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004 Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/ Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
Mail archive for TIPHON_WG7 can be browsed at the following url :
http://www.etsi.org/tiphon/mailing.htm
Mail archive for TIPHON_WG7 can be browsed at the following url :
http://www.etsi.org/tiphon/mailing.htm
-- Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004 Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/ Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
-- Edgar Martinez - Principal Staff Engineer Email mailto:martinze@cig.mot.com FAX 1-847-632-3145 - - Voice 1-847-632-5278 1501 West Shure Drive, Arlington Hgts. IL 60004 Public: TIPHON & Other Stds - http://people.itu.int/~emartine/ Private:TIPHON & Other Stds - http://www.cig.mot.com/~martinze/
participants (1)
-
Edgar Martinez [1]