RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4
Hi Bob,
I understand what you are saying (and I fully agree). However, H.323v4 section 7.8.2.1 on Calling party number contradicts H.225.0 with the following: When address information represents a telephone number, the relevant information may appear in the Calling Party Number IE. This IE contains the caller's number, information about the number, and presentation and screening indicators found in octet 3a. This is the recommended mode of operation for the case where a PSTN Gateway sends a Setup message on the packet network. Alternatively, calling party information may appear in the sourceAddress, presentationIndicator, and screeningIndicator fields of the Setup message. This mode of operation is required when the sourceAddress is not in any form of telephone number (i.e., sourceAddress is not type a dialedDigits or partyNumber). I'm saying that H.323v4 is misleading and should really say the following to be consistent with H.225.0v4. When address information represents a public (E.164) telphone number or a telephone number of unknown type, the relevant information may appear in the Calling Party Number IE. This IE contains the caller's number, information about the number, and presentation and screening indicators found in octet 3a. This is the recommended mode of operation for the case where a PSTN Gateway sends a Setup message on the packet network. Alternatively, calling party information may appear in the sourceAddress, presentationIndicator, and screeningIndicator fields of the Setup message. This mode of operation is required when the sourceAddress is not in any form of a public or unknown telephone number (i.e., sourceAddress is not type a dialedDigits or partyNumber.164Number); an example of such a case is a Private Number which shall be encoded in a sourceAddress.partyNumber.privateNumber. Same applies for 7.8.2.2.
Right? -----Original Message----- From: Callaghan, Robert [mailto:Robert.Callaghan@icn.siemens.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:59 AM To: Audet, Francois [SC2:4K02:EXCH]; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4
Francois,
See H.225.0 Section 7.2.2.4 (Called Party Number):
Numbering plan identification (octet #3, bit 1-4) -********** Encoded following the values and rules of Table 4-9/Q.931. If set to "1001" (Private Numbering Plan) in a packet based network originated call, this indicates that (1)the E.164 address is not present in SETUP, and (2)the call will be routed via an alias address in the user-to-user information.
This says that the identification of the Private Number Plan requires the call to be routed based on an alias address in the UUI. This also means that the Private Number Plan cannot indicate that a number conforming to a private numbering plan is present in the IE.
It is possible to use the value indicating an Unknown Number Plan and place a private number in the IE. However, this is only a digit string without any defined structure.
Bob ------------------------------------------------------- Robert Callaghan Siemens Enterprise Networks Tel: +1.561.997-3756 Fax: +1.561.997-3403 Email: mailto:Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com --------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Francois Audet [mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:40 PM To: Callaghan, Robert; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4
Hi Bob, I'm not sure I understand your point. The way I read it now: * H.323 says "Put a private number in the Q.931 IE"; and * H.225.0 says "Put a private number in the UUIE".
Which one is it? I think you are saying H.225.0 is right (I tend to agree and so does Paul). We need to make sure everybody does (Glenn in particular), and H.323 should be clarified, because I would assume most people who read it will think they are supposed to put the IE in the Q.931 information element. -----Original Message----- From: Callaghan, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Callaghan@icn.siemens.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 05:00 To: Audet, Francois [SC2:4K02:EXCH]; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4 Francois,
The problem is that both H.323 and H.225.0 state that in the Q.931 elements used for "telephone numbers" the code point indicating the presence of a private number is used to indicate that the address is in the UUI. It is not possible to conform to this usage and to use this value to indicate that the Q.931 element contains a private number.
Bob ------------------------------------------------------- Robert Callaghan Siemens Enterprise Networks Tel: +1.561.997-3756 Fax: +1.561.997-3403 Email: Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com < mailto:Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com mailto:Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com > --------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Francois Audet [ mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com ] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:27 PM To: Callaghan, Robert; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: Private telephone number in H.323v4
Hi,
I just realize a contradiction in H.323v4 and H.225.0v4 concerning the encoding of "private telephone numbers" (i.e., the type we all use at work): * H.225.0v4 says that "Private telephone numbers" shall be encoded in the UUIE as private numbers, and NOT in the Q.931 information elements (Calling party IE, etc.). Let's call this the "Bob method". See Table 18/H.225.0 Note 1. * H.323v4 says that the Q.931 information element is used for "telephone numbers", and that the UUIE is used for things that are not telephone numbers. Let's call this the "Glenn method". See H.323v4/7.8.2.1 and 7.8.2.2. There is no conflict with both method for "public" telephone number, but there is a conflict for "private" telephone numbers.
Which method is right, Bob's or Glenn's?
---- François AUDET, Nortel Networks < mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com >, tel:+1 408 495 3756
My two penn'orth...
I see this discussion as indicative of a trend. My understanding of the philosophy, from the olden days (v1 etc!) is that you use the Q.931 IEs where possible, and the H.225.0 UUIE elements when there is no suitable Q.931 IE. There seems to be a subtle shift towards using UUIE elements more often. Now I don't have any particular opinion as to whether this subtle shift is a good thing or a bad thing (there's a trade off between the possibility of making the UUIEs more expressive against the potential extra message size and processing introduced in adding UUIEs) - I just feel it's worth mentioning!
Oh, and on this particular case, surely receivers need to look in all possible places, so it makes little difference where the transmitter puts this particular information!
Regards, Chris
Francois Audet wrote:
Hi Bob,
I understand what you are saying (and I fully agree). However, H.323v4 section 7.8.2.1 on Calling party number contradicts H.225.0 with the following:
When address information represents a telephone number, the relevant information may appear in the Calling Party Number IE. This IE contains the caller's number, information about the number, and presentation and screening indicators found in octet 3a. This is the recommended mode of operation for the case where a PSTN Gateway sends a Setup message on the packet network. Alternatively, calling party information may appear in the sourceAddress, presentationIndicator, and screeningIndicator fields of the Setup message. This mode of operation is required when the sourceAddress is not in any form of telephone number (i.e., sourceAddress is not type a dialedDigits or partyNumber).I'm saying that H.323v4 is misleading and should really say the following to be consistent with H.225.0v4.
When address information represents a public (E.164) telphone number or a telephone number of unknown type, the relevant information may appear in the Calling Party Number IE. This IE contains the caller's number, information about the number, and presentation and screening indicators found in octet 3a. This is the recommended mode of operation for the case where a PSTN Gateway sends a Setup message on the packet network. Alternatively, calling party information may appear in the sourceAddress, presentationIndicator, and screeningIndicator fields of the Setup message. This mode of operation is required when the sourceAddress is not in any form of a public or unknown telephone number (i.e., sourceAddress is not type a dialedDigits or partyNumber.164Number); an example of such a case is a Private Number which shall be encoded in a sourceAddress.partyNumber.privateNumber.Same applies for 7.8.2.2.
Right?
-----Original Message----- From: Callaghan, Robert [mailto:Robert.Callaghan@icn.siemens.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:59 AM To: Audet, Francois [SC2:4K02:EXCH]; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4 Francois, See H.225.0 Section 7.2.2.4 (Called Party Number): Numbering plan identification (octet #3, bit 1-4) - Encoded following the values and rules of Table 4-9/Q.931. If set to "1001" (Private Numbering Plan) in a packet based network originated call, this indicates that (1)the E.164 address is not present in SETUP, and (2)the call will be routed via an alias address in the user-to-user information. This says that the identification of the Private Number Plan requires the call to be routed based on an alias address in the UUI. This also means that the Private Number Plan cannot indicate that a number conforming to a private numbering plan is present in the IE. It is possible to use the value indicating an Unknown Number Plan and place a private number in the IE. However, this is only a digit string without any defined structure. Bob ------------------------------------------------------- Robert Callaghan Siemens Enterprise Networks Tel: +1.561.997-3756 Fax: +1.561.997-3403 Email: <mailto:Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com>Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com <mailto:Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com> -------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Francois Audet [mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:40 PM To: Callaghan, Robert; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4 Hi Bob, I'm not sure I understand your point. The way I read it now: · H.323 says "Put a private number in the Q.931 IE"; and · H.225.0 says "Put a private number in the UUIE". Which one is it? I think you are saying H.225.0 is right (I tend to agree and so does Paul). We need to make sure everybody does (Glenn in particular), and H.323 should be clarified, because I would assume most people who read it will think they are supposed to put the IE in the Q.931 information element. -----Original Message----- From: Callaghan, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Callaghan@icn.siemens.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 05:00 To: Audet, Francois [SC2:4K02:EXCH]; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Private telephone number in H.323v4 Francois, The problem is that both H.323 and H.225.0 state that in the Q.931 elements used for "telephone numbers" the code point indicating the presence of a private number is used to indicate that the address is in the UUI. It is not possible to conform to this usage and to use this value to indicate that the Q.931 element contains a private number. Bob ------------------------------------------------------- Robert Callaghan Siemens Enterprise Networks Tel: +1.561.997-3756 Fax: +1.561.997-3403 Email: Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com <mailto:Robert.Callaghan@ICN.Siemens.com> -------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Francois Audet [mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:27 PM To: Callaghan, Robert; 'Glenn FREUNDLICH (E-mail)' Cc: 'SG16 ITU-T (E-mail)'; 'Paul JONES (E-mail)' Subject: Private telephone number in H.323v4 Hi, I just realize a contradiction in H.323v4 and H.225.0v4 concerning the encoding of "private telephone numbers" (i.e., the type we all use at work): · H.225.0v4 says that "Private telephone numbers" shall be encoded in the UUIE as private numbers, and NOT in the Q.931 information elements (Calling party IE, etc.). Let's call this the "Bob method". See Table 18/H.225.0 Note 1. · H.323v4 says that the Q.931 information element is used for "telephone numbers", and that the UUIE is used for things that are not telephone numbers. Let's call this the "Glenn method". See H.323v4/7.8.2.1 and 7.8.2.2. There is no conflict with both method for "public" telephone number, but there is a conflict for "private" telephone numbers. Which method is right, Bob's or Glenn's? ---- François AUDET, Nortel Networks <mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com>, tel:+1 408 495 3756
-- Dr Chris Purvis -- Development Manager ISDN Communications Ltd, The Stable Block, Ronans, Chavey Down Road Winkfield Row, Berkshire. RG42 6LY ENGLAND Phone: +44 1344 899 007 Fax: +44 1344 899 001
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For help on this mail list, send "HELP ITU-SG16" in a message to listserv@mailbag.intel.com
participants (2)
-
Chris Wayman Purvis -
Francois Audet