While we don't necessarily oppose migrating to a sequence of nonStandardParameter in the nonStandardData element of H323-UU-PDU in H.225.0 messages, everyone should be aware that NetMeeting does make use of this element in the "old" unstructured form. I think you'd find NetMeeting users disturbed by the loss of functionality that occurred if intermediate devices overwrote nonStandardData, as provided for in the last paragraph of the proposed text. We would be much more comfortable if the text did not permit overwriting -- or mandated preservation -- when the message is being conveyed between H.323v1 endpoints. -- Toby ___________________________________________________________ Toby Nixon, Program Manager - NetMeeting http://www.microsoft.com/netmeeting Microsoft Corporation, Applications and Internet Client Group, Redmond WA USA +1 (425) 936-2792 Fax: +1 (425) 936-7329 mailto:tnixon@microsoft.com

-----Original Message----- From: Pete Cordell [SMTP:pete.cordell@BT-SYS.BT.CO.UK] Sent: Friday, January 16, 1998 4:59 AM To: ITU-SG16@MAILBAG.INTEL.COM Subject: Re: H.323 delta doc

Gary,

Two things....

1. I included the wrong text in the mail I originally sent you... The text should have been:-

"To include multiple elements of nonStandardData in an H.225 message the nonStandardParameter is used in the following way. This special use of the nonStandardParameter is identified by setting the nonStandardIdentifier to be an OBJECT IDENTIFIER of type {itu-t (0) recommendation (0) h (8) 2250}. In this case the information contained in the data part of the nonStandardParameter consists of a fragment of ASN.1 encoded into an OCTET STRING (The ASN.1 encoding rules are the same as those for all H.225 messages). The ASN.1 fragment has the following syntax:

ExtendNonStandard ::= SEQUENCE OF NonStandardParameter

It is recommended that entities use this method for including nonStandardData in messages even if they only insert one piece of information as it allows other entities in the signalling path to either add or delete their own nonStandardData without overwriting information inserted by the originating entity.

If intermediate entities on the signalling path need to insert nonStandardData when there is already nonStandardData present that is not of the extended form described above they are encouraged to take measures to ensure that the original nonStandardData can be recovered by entities further down the signalling path once those entities have removed any nonStandardData specific to them. This can be achieved by nesting the original nonStandardData field inside the nonStandardParameter created by the intermediate entity.

However, endpoints should be aware that if they do not insert nonStandardData in the extended form it may be overwritten by intermediate signalling entities."

This is less enforcing than the text you received before, which seems more in line with backwards compatibility.

2. If you're imply that it should be in H.225.0 I think that makes sense (even though I had originally assumed it would go in H.323). In the discussion on nonStandardParameter in Section 7.6 H.225.0 seems a good place.

Regards,

Pete ================================= Pete Cordell BT Labs E-Mail: pete.cordell@bt-sys.bt.co.uk Tel: +44 1473 646436 Fax: +44 1473 645499 =================================

...

---------- From: Gary A. Thom[SMTP:gthom@DELTA-INFO.COM] Sent: 16 January 1998 00:40 To: ITU-SG16@MAILBAG.INTEL.COM Subject: Re: H.323 delta doc

Pete,

Is this text for a new section in H.323 or for the non-standard semantics in H.225.0???

Gary

------------------------ From: Pete Cordell <pete.cordell@BT-SYS.BT.CO.UK> Subject: Re: H.323 delta doc Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:01:48 -0000 To: ITU-SG16@MAILBAG.INTEL.COM

...

Gary,

I think we got consensus on the nonStandard issue to the point that no one objected (!) and most people seemed to be positive. The suggested wording (including wording to cover off Joerg's comments) was:

"To include multiple elements of nonStandardData in an H.225 message the nonStandardParameter SHALL BE in the following way. This special use of the nonStandardParameter is identified by setting the nonStandardIdentifier to be an OBJECT IDENTIFIER of type {itu-t (0) recommendation (0) h (8) 2250}. In this case the information contained in the data part of the nonStandardParameter SHALL CONSIST of a fragment of ASN.1 encoded into an OCTET STRING (The ASN.1 encoding rules are the same as those for all H.225 messages). The ASN.1 fragment has the following syntax:

ExtendNonStandard ::= SEQUENCE OF NonStandardParameter

Entities SHOULD use this method for including nonStandardData in messages even if they only insert one piece of information as it allows other entities in the signalling path to either add or delete their own nonStandardData without overwriting information inserted by the originating entity.

If intermediate entities on the signalling path need to insert nonStandardData when there is already nonStandardData present that is not of the extended form described above (i.e. this sentence goes below what I originally presented, just avoid any confusion!) they are encouraged to take measures to ensure that the original nonStandardData can be recovered by entities further down the signalling path once those entities have removed any nonStandardData specific to them. This can be achieved by nesting the original nonStandardData field inside the nonStandardParameter created by the intermediate entity.

However, endpoints should be aware that if they do not insert nonStandardData in the extended form it may be overwritten by intermediate signalling entities."

Regards,

Pete

================================= Pete Cordell BT Labs E-Mail: pete.cordell@bt-sys.bt.co.uk Tel: +44 1473 646436 Fax: +44 1473 645499 =================================

...

---------- From: Gary A. Thom[SMTP:gthom@DELTA-INFO.COM] Sent: 09 January 1998 23:00 To: ITU-SG16@MAILBAG.INTEL.COM Subject: H.323 delta doc

<<File: H323DL.DOC>> Hi all,

Attached is the Delta document for H.323.

I did not include any changes for nonStandard or Fast Start as I did not hear a widely accepted proposal.

If I missed anyones comments, please let me know.

Gary ------------------------------------------------------ Name : Gary A. Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Address: 300 Welsh Rd., Bldg 3 Horsham, PA 19044 USA Phone : +1-215-657-5270 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail : gthom@delta-info.com ------------------------------------------------------

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------------------------------------ Name : Gary A. Thom Company: Delta Information Systems, Inc. Address: 300 Welsh Rd., Bldg 3 Horsham, PA 19044 USA Phone : +1-215-657-5270 Fax : +1-215-657-5273 E-mail : gthom@delta-info.com ------------------------------------------------------